New Black and White Eastern Garter Morph Found!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Eddie]

Its not a hybrid. Its common sense and nothing else

[AntTheDestroyer]

Its not a hybrid. Its common sense and nothing else

I don't get it. What does this have to do with common sense?

[Albert Clark]

Its not a hybrid. Its common sense and nothing else

With all due respect sir, I am looking for a anatomical , phenotypical differentiation in a specimen that was w/c as it relates to hybridization. It absolutely has nothing to do with common sense. If you can't contribute anything helpful just continue to read!

[guidofatherof5]

Its not a hybrid. Its common sense and nothing else

With all due respect sir, I am looking for a anatomical , phenotypical differentiation in a specimen that was w/c as it relates to hybridization. It absolutely has nothing to do with common sense. If you can't contribute anything helpful just continue to read!

Why the confrontation reply Albert? Eddie simply stated it was a matter of common sense as that relates to his perspective on the information given. I understood his word usage. He was contributing and certainly didn't make his statement to offend anyone. He too is a valued member of this page and telling him to "just continue to read" is inappropriate.
I'm not trying to start something here but why didn't you simply ask him to explain what he meant?

[Albert Clark]

First of all, how can you justify his comment about common sense when that certainly was directed to me and can easily be construed as offensive. What is inappropriate is his reference to "common sense" being the only way to qualify the differentiating factors in hybridization and how it relates to w/c individuals. If you feel that Eddies comment was a reasonable contribution to a educated question directed to clarify a perplexing issue I have to disagree. Confrontational? No. Just challenging Eddies response that to me, is not only inappropriate but its inadequate as it doesn't EXPLAIN any part of the original question. None of us know it all Steve that is why we ask questions. "Just continue to read" was preceded by my comment and my interpretation of his ( Eddies) less than helpful , poor , explanation of the hybridization of w/c's. How can the differentiating factors and any signs and or physical attributes of hybrids just be "common sense"? Come on, and your validating what he said?

[guidofatherof5]

First of all, how can you justify his comment about common sense when that certainly was directed to me and can easily be construed as offensive. What is inappropriate is his reference to "common sense" being the only way to qualify the differentiating factors in hybridization and how it relates to w/c individuals. If you feel that Eddies comment was a reasonable contribution to a educated question directed to clarify a perplexing issue I have to disagree. Confrontational? No. Just challenging Eddies response that to me, is not only inappropriate but its inadequate as it doesn't EXPLAIN any part of the original question. None of us know it all Steve that is why we ask questions. "Just continue to read" was preceded by my comment and my interpretation of his ( Eddies) less than helpful , poor , explanation of the hybridization of w/c's. How can the differentiating factors and any signs and or physical attributes of hybrids just be "common sense"? Come on, and your validating what he said?

First, I want to apologize to Eddie for speaking on his behalf and to Jeff for derailing his thread. Maybe I should have stayed out of it but I didn't.
Knowing the State(PA) this snake originated from is an important piece of evidence to the common sense response. PA has two native garter snakes T. s. sirtalis (Eastern garter snake) and Thamnophis brachystoma (Short-Headed Garter Snake) the latter being in very small isolated populations. The fact that the State is a hot bed for Eastern morphs over the years and that similar morphs like the "Granite" have been found there is important also. This by itself says a lot about the unlikelihood that the snake in question could a hybrid. There have been many hybrids posted to this page over the years and they all have one thing in common. They look like plain and simply a wash of the two snakes that produced them. Then I look at the experience and knowledge of the people responding to help put the evidence together.
With all of this I understand the common sense response and would have come to the same conclusion. I mean no offense in my response.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

It reminds me of the cyclone garter a few years back! I think it was white and purple though.

[AntTheDestroyer]

Albert, although Eddie's comment did have a sense of condescension, getting upset is not the best way to get the answers you seek. Thanks Steve and Jeff for the explanation, I think sometimes it is easy to forget that what seems like common knowledge to more experienced members is not so often true for us new folks.

[Eddie]

WOW, First debate I ever started and it was by accident! LOL

[Jeff B]

• My guy, found me a young adult male only a few hundred feet from where the black and white female was found. I thought the black and white might be a male when I first got her due to her size but the tail had me confused. She is now eating two small mice at a time and has grown a lot since I got here and is pretty clearly a female to me. Got the male earlier this week and pretty sure he is male and hopefully might get lucky that he is a carrier for the black and white gene. Either way he will make great new breeding stock.

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