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  1. #1
    "Preparing For Second shed"
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    Bit concerned about this

    Assmodius 's injury or whatever you call it has returned

    I've taken him to a vet before but they were no help really

    He was ok feeding etc and only recently it returned using a good camera really shows how nasty it is.

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  2. #2
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Bit concerned about this

    A little history please?
    So, this snake had this exact injury/infection before. Did it completely clear up at some point? What treatment has been done by you or the Vet?
    Have you used any topical ointment/creams on it?
    Could this be a rub injury?
    I would be concerned with this. Oral/injectable antibiotic and diluted Hibiclens for the topical needed in my opinion.

    I found this old thread about this issue.
    http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/urgent-care/8257-im-concerned-what.html

    Wow, this has gotten much worse.
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

  3. #3
    Adult snake Greg'sGarters's Avatar
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    Re: Bit concerned about this

    I would go to a different vet. Ask around and try to find out the best reptile vet in your area. Get a bunch of different opinions.
    -Greg
    1.1T.s. concinnus, 1.1 T.s. parietalis, 1.0 T.s. semifasciatus, 0.1 T. radix
    "Garters are predictable. Predictably variable" - Neil Balchan


  4. #4
    "Preparing For Second shed"
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    Re: Bit concerned about this

    Not many good reptile vets nearby and tried to get hold of one recently in Dublin but his hours were so scare / didn't seem to answer phone, is there no cream I can get for him other than trip to vet?

    I don't mind paying it's just very difficult to find one I was using that reptile iodine product early on but nothing seemed to be improving, when it does look like it's clearing up as it did the last time he had this he just goes and scraps it off things (itchy maybe) he is an old snake now also so maybe his immunity is down

  5. #5
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Bit concerned about this

    Can you buy Hibiclens?
    HibiclensŪ and HibistatŪ
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

  6. #6
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    Re: Bit concerned about this

    That's an infection plain and simple. Identifying the culprit is essential because many bacteria are resistant to certain drugs. You really need a vet that can perform a debridement ( the medical removal of dead, damaged, or infected tissue to improve the healing potential of the remaining healthy tissue) and have the dead material tested in a lab to identify the culprit. Only then can they know what antibiotic to use, and then, the antibiotic needs to be in the snake's bloodstream, either given orally or by injection.

    If that can't be accomplished right away, (and it wouldn't be cheap, so cost can be a factor) if it were me, I would do a warm soak as best I can, and rake off the dead material myself and keep applying a strong antiseptic to the area. If crust builds up again, remove it. You want to treat the healthy tissue underneath. But in the end, fighting it topically might not be enough if the infection is too deep in the tissues.

    Like Steve suggested, you might give Hibiclens a try (or any skin cleanser containing a few percent chlorhexidine gluconate) and apply several times a day, don't rinse. Bacteria which have developed resistance to iodine or certain treatments often have less resistance to chlorhexidine gluconate because it's use is relatively new. You've probably heard of MRSA. It's a strain of staph that has developed resistance to normal treatments/antibiotics. Even iodine won't get rid of it from an active skin infection, but chlorhexidine gluconate will. Just make sure you continue treatment a couple of weeks beyond apparent healing, to prevent creating a resistant strain of the bacteria.

    At this point, you already tried iodine but didn't get rid of it. So, next time you try it, it's probably not going to work at all if the bacteria have become resistant. You need something strong, but something that isn't iodine. chlorhexidine gluconate fits the bill but you gotta get that dead tissue off so the medication can bond with the live healthy tissue underneath.

    If you took him to a vet and followed his instructions or had him treated, I would file a complaint. It has gotten much worse. If it was done right early when you first showed us...

  7. #7
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    Re: Bit concerned about this

    It could be bacterial, or it could be fungal. I'd say a biopsy is probably necessary or you would just be guessing on what to treat it with and wasting time while it's getting worse and spreading.


    "Fungal Infections: A number of fungal organisms can cause superficial and deeper infections of snakes. Most of these infections involve the skin and respiratory system. Fungal infections of the eyes are most likely to occur in snakes housed in damp, contaminated environments. Ringworm fungi that usually infect people, pets and livestock have also caused skin infections of snakes. Snakes must be housed in scrupulously clean and dry enclosures. The flooring must be easy to clean and should not be of a material that encourages fungal (mold) growth (see section on Housing). A veterinarian must examine Snakes exhibiting problems with their skin and/or eyes as soon as possible. A microbial culture and a skin biopsy may be necessary to obtain a diagnosis. Treatment of fungal diseases involves use of topical and systemic (oral and/or injectable) antifungal agents. Prevention of fungal disease involves correcting underlying problems with husbandry"

  8. #8
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" chris-uk's Avatar
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    Re: Bit concerned about this

    Quote Originally Posted by guidofatherof5 View Post
    Can you buy Hibiclens?
    HibiclensŪ and HibistatŪ
    Not sure about Ireland, but I've not found anywhere in the UK that supplies Hibiclens. The only thing I found the same active ingredient (chlorhexidine gluconate) in it was a medicated mouthwash (off the top of my head, I think it was Corsodyl) so that may be worth a try. As a general rule it's much more difficult to get hold of antibiotic ointments without a prescription on this side of the Atlantic.
    A trip to a vet that knows reptiles is the way to go, it may not be so expensive as you think.


    Edit:
    Just did another search, and you can find Hibiclens on Amazon.co.uk:
    Amazon.co.uk: hibiclens

    It's curious that it's not available from our high street pharmacies though... makes me think it isn't officially distributed here.
    Last edited by chris-uk; 01-04-2013 at 07:46 AM. Reason: I take it back, you can find Hibiclen on Amazon.co.uk
    Chris
    T. marcianus, T. e. cuitzeoensis, T. cyrtopsis, T. radix, T. s. infernalis, T. s. tetrataenia

  9. #9
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" d_virginiana's Avatar
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    Re: Bit concerned about this

    You wouldn't even need a reptile vet for that... As long as you tell a regular vet exactly what you want done, they can clear off the dead tissue and do the biopsy. They can also get antibiotics that it would be difficult to just find over the counter.
    Lora

    3.0 T. sirtalis sirtalis, 1.1 T. cyrtopsis ocellatus, 1.0 L. caerulea, 0.1 C. cranwelli, 0.1 T. carolina, 0.1 P. regius, 0.1 G. rosea, 0.0.1 B. smithi, 0.1 H. carolinensis

  10. #10
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    Re: Bit concerned about this

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-uk View Post
    The only thing I found the same active ingredient (chlorhexidine gluconate) in it was a medicated mouthwash... makes me think it isn't officially distributed here.
    Yeah, that won't be strong enough. Mouthwashes are typically less than 1% chlorhexidine gluconate. The funny thing is, mouthwashes with that ingredient still require a prescription here. The skin cleansers with 4% chlorhexidine gluconate can be purchased OTC. Go figure.

    Yes, what is available OTC will vary depending on country. In the U.S., 3% hydrogen peroxide is labeled in a way that gives instructions on how to use it as a mouthwash. peroxide is also found in toothpastes and whiteners. Not so in Canada as hydrogen peroxide hasn't been approved for oral use.

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