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Thread: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

  1. #31
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    If the need arises I may give it a go.
    Steve
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  2. #32
    Adult snake Greg'sGarters's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    Ok, sounds great!
    -Greg
    1.1T.s. concinnus, 1.1 T.s. parietalis, 1.0 T.s. semifasciatus, 0.1 T. radix
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  3. #33
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" chris-uk's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg'sGarters View Post
    And don't forget you need to be able to mix this stuff into a liter. The bottle that comes with the zoo med fogger is 1L. And please correct me if I'm wrong with this...I don't believe that a disinfectant would harm a snake (assuming that it is if safe for the snake) even if there are no bacteria. I would not recommend giving medicine to a snake that doesn't need the medicine, but this just sterilizes the lung area of any bacteria (or at least disinfects a good amount of it).
    There will always be some bacteria present, and exposing them unnecessarily to an agent intended to kill them can help develop resistance to the agent.
    Chris
    T. marcianus, T. e. cuitzeoensis, T. cyrtopsis, T. radix, T. s. infernalis, T. s. tetrataenia

  4. #34
    Adult snake Greg'sGarters's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    1. It doesn't matter if their bodies are resistant to it or not, it does not target them, it targets strictly the bacteria. Which will be dead

    2. 1 or 2 times won't hurt it, this is a temporary treatment until the snake can go to a vet.
    -Greg
    1.1T.s. concinnus, 1.1 T.s. parietalis, 1.0 T.s. semifasciatus, 0.1 T. radix
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  5. #35
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" chris-uk's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg'sGarters View Post
    1. It doesn't matter if their bodies are resistant to it or not, it does not target them, it targets strictly the bacteria. Which will be dead

    2. 1 or 2 times won't hurt it, this is a temporary treatment until the snake can go to a vet.
    I don't think you understand the principle of resistant bacteria. It's the bacteria that get resistant from repeated exposure (not the snakes) to an agent intended to kill them. Most of the time you will kill all the bacteria, but with each exposure you stand a chance of one of the bacteria mutating and becoming resistant to the agent. That bacteria then flourishes and can't be killed by your first choice agent (in this case nebulised F10) and you will need to resort to a stronger agent.

    As a treatment for a symptomatic illness you're correct, a couple of times won't hurt. But as a routine treatment for every snake on arrival it's exactly the situation that promotes resistant bacteria. Also consider that some of the nebulised mist will be escaping from your nebulisation chamber, this exposes bacteria in the surrounding environment to the F10 at concentrations low enough that are less than lethal, perfect for producing resistant bacteria in your snake room.

    As a home treatment while you're trying to get a snake to a vet it's a great principle and one I'd use.
    Chris
    T. marcianus, T. e. cuitzeoensis, T. cyrtopsis, T. radix, T. s. infernalis, T. s. tetrataenia

  6. #36
    Adult snake Greg'sGarters's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    Ok, yeah. I see how it should not be used as a preventative. You were right. I had misunderstood thinking that you were saying that the snakes were resistant to it.



    Quote Originally Posted by chris-uk View Post
    I don't think you understand the principle of resistant bacteria. It's the bacteria that get resistant from repeated exposure (not the snakes) to an agent intended to kill them. Most of the time you will kill all the bacteria, but with each exposure you stand a chance of one of the bacteria mutating and becoming resistant to the agent. That bacteria then flourishes and can't be killed by your first choice agent (in this case nebulised F10) and you will need to resort to a stronger agent.

    As a treatment for a symptomatic illness you're correct, a couple of times won't hurt. But as a routine treatment for every snake on arrival it's exactly the situation that promotes resistant bacteria. Also consider that some of the nebulised mist will be escaping from your nebulisation chamber, this exposes bacteria in the surrounding environment to the F10 at concentrations low enough that are less than lethal, perfect for producing resistant bacteria in your snake room.

    As a home treatment while you're trying to get a snake to a vet it's a great principle and one I'd use.
    -Greg
    1.1T.s. concinnus, 1.1 T.s. parietalis, 1.0 T.s. semifasciatus, 0.1 T. radix
    "Garters are predictable. Predictably variable" - Neil Balchan


  7. #37
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    Brian uses it only when snakes show symptoms of RI and it's not just until he can get them to a vet. He says that it in many cases it cures the problem. Only IF it doesn't, does he then seek vet treatment. Watch it yourself at 2:48



    What I was saying about that stuff before is that when I tried to look online to buy it, it was going to cost me around $100 to get the smallest container and of course I would also have to buy the fogger. I know it doesn't take much of it but that just seems rather expensive. I've only had one snake sick with RI in about 25 years so it's not like I need to invest in this. I can understand it if you have a large collection and see RI's more often. Then it has the potential to cure some RI's and save on the vet bill. Anyway, baytril (oral suspension) cured the problem in my case. The snake is fine.

  8. #38
    Adult snake Greg'sGarters's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    Oh, yeah that's where I got the info from - that video. Ok, so now that I have been corrected, I will officially state that it should only be used on sick snakes. Thank you everyone for your input.
    -Greg
    1.1T.s. concinnus, 1.1 T.s. parietalis, 1.0 T.s. semifasciatus, 0.1 T. radix
    "Garters are predictable. Predictably variable" - Neil Balchan


  9. #39
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    Not only that, once you start treatment, you need to continue it. Don't just do it once or twice. Do it every day, (if not twice a day) for 10 days in a row.

    This is why they tell you not to stop taking antibiotics before they are all gone, and don't skip doses. Because if you don't kill all the bacteria, the resistant ones will have time to pass that resistance onto the next generation, and as you know, a generation for bacteria doesn't take long. Way too many people fail to take all their antibiotics, fail to take them as prescribed, or indiscriminately take other people's antibiotics, and then not even a full course of them. Those are the people you can blame for the resistant strains we're dealing with these days.

    I would say that this nebulizer idea is OK but only do it for snakes with minor RI's that have symptoms, and above all, don't stop after a couple of treatments, or just 3 or 4 days. Even if it doesn't seem to be working, I would do it the full 10 days anyway. Don't even start doing it if you're not going to do it every day and follow through for the full course.
    Greg'sGarters likes this.

  10. #40
    Thamnophis cymru -MARWOLAETH-'s Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    A healthy snake will deal with bacteria on it's own as hydrolytic enzymes get the job done just fine ;]
    Will

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