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Thread: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

  1. #1
    Adult snake Greg'sGarters's Avatar
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    Exclamation Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    I wanted to start a thread for something I think can REALLY help a lot of people either cure/prevent some Respiratory Infections. Nebulization. Nebulization (for those who don't know what it is) is a way of administering medication through the form of an aerosol/inhaled fog. I feel that it should be done to any new snakes, to kill any possible respiratory infections before symptoms arise and any snakes that have a known respiratory infection. If being done to a new snake, I would recommend doing this right after the snake gets to your house, before it goes into the quarantine tank. If being done to an established snake, I would recommend doing this immediately and after, putting the snake into quarantine and repeating once every 1-2 days and not returning it to the main collection until 3 days after the symptoms have gone away. This is how it is done:

    Materials You Will Need:
    • Zoo Med Repti Fogger
    • F10 SC Veterinary Disinfectant
    • Plastic Box (I use the sterilite sweater boxes, the small ones that are about 13" long) with lid
    • Razor Blade/Box Cutter/Hot Knife; pretty much anything that can cut/melt through plastic
    • Syringe that measures in cc or mL
    • Sharpie/Marker
    • Drill with small drill bit/hot screwdriver; anything that can make holes in through plastic


    How To Set Up Your Nebulization System:


    1. Drill/melt ventilation holes in the lid of your box for ventilation. Leave one corner without holes, this is where the fog will come into the chamber.
    2. In the box that the Repti Fogger came in, you will find a tube that hooks up to the fogger for the fog to travel through. Place one end of this on the un-drilled corner of the lid for your box, and using a marker/sharpie, trace the hole onto the lid.
    3. Use your Razor Blade/Box Cutter/Hot Knife to cut out/melt out the hole you just traced. This is where the fogging tube will enter the chamber.
    4. Next setup your Repti Fogger. This is pretty easy, and can usually be figured out on your own. Take the bottle and fill it up with cold water leaving just a little space at the top before the neck of the bottle.
    5. Open up your bottle of F10 SC Veterinary Disinfectant and draw up 2.5cc (2.5mL) of the disinfectant into the syringe. Inject/squirt this into the water in the bottle you just filled up and GENTLY mix by shaking (if you shake the bottle too hard, bubbles will form, not dangerous/problematic just annoying).
    6. Screw the lid on your bottle and put the bottle on your fogger and let the bottle drain until the chamber is full (you will know when the bubbles stop coming).
    7. If you haven't already, hook up the extending tube to the end of the fogger that fog comes out (when looking from the front, it is the right side).
    8. Stick the other end of the tube in the hole you cut/melted out in step 3.
    9. Your Nebulization System should be ready, do a test run before adding any snakes. When the knob is set all the way up, the box should fill up with fog in 10 seconds or less.
    10. This is the final step. Compare your Nebulization System to mine (seen below). If you have ANY questions/doubts PLEASE contact me. F10 SC Veterinary Disinfectant is very powerful and is only to be used in a 1:250 ratio (F10 SC:Water) MAXIMUM.


    I use a heavy fog for all garter snakes, except babies. For babies, I set the fogger at the lowest it can go without being off and do that 3 times, in 1 minute increments with 1 minute breaks in between.


    This is my Repti Fogger

    Zoo Med Fogger.jpg



    This is the fogging tube connected to my box (Nebulization Chamber)

    Fog Tube.jpg



    This is what you should see when the Fogger (Nebulizer) is on high. If you look closely you can see that this is actually producing medicated fog!

    Nebulizing In Process.jpg



    This is my full set up. This is what it should look like when you are finished.

    Nebulization System.jpg


    This is my full set up. This is what it should look like when you are finished.


    Once again, I STRESS that if you have ANY DOUBTS/CONCERNS/QUESTIONS PLEASE PM/SKYPE ME!!! Please note that this is NOT a substitute for seeing a qualified reptile veterinarian. This is used to treat/provent mild respiratory infections. If this does not work/help, I urge you to make an appointment with your reptile veterinarian.

    I hope this thread helps anyone who has a snake with a respiratory infection, and with luck this may be the magic we have been waiting for!
    CrazyHedgehog likes this.
    -Greg
    1.1T.s. concinnus, 1.1 T.s. parietalis, 1.0 T.s. semifasciatus, 0.1 T. radix
    "Garters are predictable. Predictably variable" - Neil Balchan


  2. #2
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    Good thread but I hesitate treating healthy animals for a non identified illness. I understand the concept you are purporting but don't like introducing medication to a healthy animal and from what I can see it's a disinfectant.
    I don't meant to be the fly in the ointment but not knowing anything about this F10 SC Veterinary Disinfectant I am leery.
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

  3. #3
    Adult snake Greg'sGarters's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    I agree with you on not treating snakes with medications for a non-identified illness. However this is not a medication, but a disinfectant. It does not do any harm to the lungs of the snake. Plus the instructions say to use a 1:250 ratio, however, I use a 1:500 ratio. It is used by the very reputable Brian Barczyk, who uses a 3:1000 ratio. If you are still leery, you can use a 1:1000 ratio which would be 1/4 the recommended strength. Through working with this stuff, I have inhaled fumes (not purposely, just from working with it) from the pure disinfectant which did not even cause a cough.
    -Greg
    1.1T.s. concinnus, 1.1 T.s. parietalis, 1.0 T.s. semifasciatus, 0.1 T. radix
    "Garters are predictable. Predictably variable" - Neil Balchan


  4. #4
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    It is a disinfectant being used as a medication
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

  5. #5
    Adult snake Greg'sGarters's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    Actually it is a disinfectant being used as an antibiotic.
    -Greg
    1.1T.s. concinnus, 1.1 T.s. parietalis, 1.0 T.s. semifasciatus, 0.1 T. radix
    "Garters are predictable. Predictably variable" - Neil Balchan


  6. #6
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    Antibiotic are medications I certainly would need to do more research on this before I used it.

    I did find this.

    http://www.f10biocare.co.uk/VETDISINFECTANT.pdf
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

  7. #7
    Adult snake Greg'sGarters's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    I think that it works great, I had a corn snake that would wheeze louder than a pep rally at a school for deaf kids , but 30 minutes in the Nebulization Chamber, no sound at all when she's breathing!
    -Greg
    1.1T.s. concinnus, 1.1 T.s. parietalis, 1.0 T.s. semifasciatus, 0.1 T. radix
    "Garters are predictable. Predictably variable" - Neil Balchan


  8. #8
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Selkielass's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    I would hesitate to use a disinfectant internally without a vets input.
    My son uses a nebulizer for his asthma. Abby and Ziva have, on occasion, been exposed to diffused mist from the nebulizer without visible effects, but we are cautious.
    I could see hooking up the nebulizer, with snake specific tubing and cups to a treatment chamber. It would indeed be a very good way to administer medications directly to the lungs.

    The reps-fogger is Not a nebulizer.
    it is not designed to administer measured doses of medication in a regulated amount of time.
    It may be sterilizable...I don't know. What about contaminants and bacterial growth inside a used unit?
    In my sons nebulizer the medication is isolated in a sterilizable cup, and only air passes thru the machine and carries the meds into the mask. Mask, cup and tubing are all sterilizable and replaceable.

    This looks too much like dumping some poultry antibiotic. Or vicsyou vapo rub into a humidifier, venti g it into a cage, and 'treating' an animal.
    It might work, but id be really worried about dose control and contamination.

  9. #9
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" CrazyHedgehog's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    I think if you look at this for what it is, its a great idea.
    Greg is stating it's not to replace a vet, but if you are unable to get to one (the nearest reptile vet is 5 hours away from me) then its a choice you can think about.
    Sterilisation?, well I think thats an obvious one if you are treating an ill snake anyway, and at such tiny doses, surely no harm can come of it.
    You would not be treating healthy snakes anyway, but ones that you were concerned with thier health,
    If it has been tried and tested and has a few good results, you have no other choices....(ie no accessable vet whether its distance or cost) then surely its a chance worth taking and better than watching a snake deteriorate?
    Inge
    our house is like a zoo, too many to list here!

  10. #10
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Selkielass's Avatar
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    Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

    To clarify im seeing this as an off-label use of medicine or pesticides.
    off label use of pesticides has gotten the beekeeping industry into trouble time after time after time.
    Dead colonies.
    Contaminated equipment wax and honey.
    Antibiotic resistant diseases.
    Pesticides resistant mites.
    Sick families and bad media publicity.

    I don't want to see the reptile community subjected to any of this sort of scrutiny, or affected by the negative consequences that have plagued the beekeeping industry and community.
    No offense to anyone personally
    No individual attacks offered, but off label use of medications and pesticides is a dangerous road.

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