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Thread: Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

  1. #11
    Subadult snake i_heart_sneakie_snakes's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

    I'm so glad you didn't lose him. Hoping he makes a full recovery!!
    0.2.4 T.s. Fitchi - Flickabee and Salem
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  2. #12
    Forum Moderator aSnakeLovinBabe's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

    Quote Originally Posted by ConcinnusMan View Post
    Well this is a garter though, not a florida snake so hopefully he'll get through it without getting ill. I wouldn't expect a garter to get a RI just from getting really cold.

    Water snakes are incredibly tough, even the Florida ones. Just like the Florida garters, they can handle being chilled. But when they get THAT cold to the point where they are "dead", it is unhealthy even for a garter snake. It isn't good for their internal organs.
    infernalis likes this.
    Mother of many snakes and a beautiful baby girl! I am also a polymer clay artist!


  3. #13
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" d_virginiana's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

    We don't have many garters where I live, but water snakes are always the last snakes I see out before winter really kicks in and some of the first I see coming out in the spring.
    Lora

    3.0 T. sirtalis sirtalis, 1.1 T. cyrtopsis ocellatus, 1.0 L. caerulea, 0.1 C. cranwelli, 0.1 T. carolina, 0.1 P. regius, 0.1 G. rosea, 0.0.1 B. smithi, 0.1 H. carolinensis

  4. #14
    Forum Moderator Stefan-A's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

    It's a shame you didn't film it.
    aSnakeLovinBabe likes this.

  5. #15
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    Re: Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

    Great story but forgive me for asking this..... What does police training have to do with it? How has "all of your police training" helped you revive your snake over good solid common sense? I'm glad he made it for you. Shipping can be tough at times. Best of luck with him. Mike Panichi

  6. #16
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" chris-uk's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg'sGarters View Post
    .... I immediately picked up the snake and unthawed all his vital organs (not all of him was frozen but his heart, esophagus, stomach, and intestines were) by running my hands up and down him. Once he was unthawed, I massaged his heart, while keeping him close to me......
    I'm glad that he revived, but I think you'll find that he wasn't actually frozen. As others have pointed out, if his organs had frozen he wouldn't be slithering now. There's a handful of animals that can survive freezing, but as a rule, freezing causes massive cell damage and turns internal organs to mush.
    Can you also give me some pointers as to how to find the heart to perform CPR on a garter if I need to? I'd be stuffed if I had to try to find the heart and massage one of mine back to life.


    Just to digress...
    Stefan - when I was in Christmas over New Year nearly 20 years ago, my friend told me that you get cases every year of people getting drunk, falling asleep on the way home without a hat on, and their brains freezing. Apparently the ones that they manage to revive are often vegetables. Is that an urban legend in Finland, or does it happen?
    Chris
    T. marcianus, T. e. cuitzeoensis, T. cyrtopsis, T. radix, T. s. infernalis, T. s. tetrataenia

  7. #17
    Forum Moderator Stefan-A's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-uk View Post
    Just to digress...
    Stefan - when I was in Christmas over New Year nearly 20 years ago, my friend told me that you get cases every year of people getting drunk, falling asleep on the way home without a hat on, and their brains freezing. Apparently the ones that they manage to revive are often vegetables. Is that an urban legend in Finland, or does it happen?
    Well, there have been instances of people either lying down or sitting down in one of our many comfortable looking snow piles on their way home from the bar and subsequently passing out. Not sure about the injuries they get, and I doubt the hat matters much. But it's pretty much true, these things do happen.

    Came across one candidate a few years ago on my way to the grocery store one evening. He hadn't passed out yet, so I asked him whether he needed help getting home, which he didn't, since apparently a friend was coming to pick him up. He wasn't there anymore when I came back 15 minutes later, so I suppose he made it. I know one other person who passed out on his way home. He was saved in time, as well. So yeah, it happens.

  8. #18
    Adult snake Greg'sGarters's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

    Quote Originally Posted by thamneil View Post
    For future reference, don't warm the snakes up too quickly when that happens. Let them gradually warm to room temperature and then place them in their enclosures. From what I have always been told, warming them up too fast will cause damage. Keep an eye out for seizures. This happened to me recently.

    And on a side note, it would be impossible for the snake to live had it been frozen. Frozen organs would no longer have worked. He was not frozen, just cold.
    I felt it, it was really stiff. Like he had just swallowed a block of wood, if he wasn't frozen, I don't know what it was. I knew not to warm him up too quickly, that's why I used my hands as opposed to breathing on him or putting him in a warm cage. It's like when you are working out in the snow, and you come in and run hot water on your hands it is EXTREMELY uncomfortable. I warmed him up over about 2 minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe View Post
    Yes I was just about to say what Neil said... there is no way the snake was actually froze. He would be dead. I received a snake in the same condition once. An albino florida banded water snake. The seller shipped the snake with a hand warmer and without even getting the OK or a temp check first. Needless to say I received a lifeless snake cicle. as I was taking pics of the "dead" snake he revived. He ended up developing respiratory issues and perished. The seller said he was going to send me a new one and never did come through.
    Is it possible that the cold might have kept him alive? I know that when someone gets a finger cut off, you are supposed to keep it on ice until you can get to a hospital.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan-A View Post
    It's a shame you didn't film it.
    I wish I had too. At the time though, I was more worried about getting the snake back alive than to filming the whole thing, with my luck he would have died in the time I was filming it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_panic View Post
    Great story but forgive me for asking this..... What does police training have to do with it? How has "all of your police training" helped you revive your snake over good solid common sense? I'm glad he made it for you. Shipping can be tough at times. Best of luck with him. Mike Panichi
    I had taken a few courses on emergency care. When you dial 911, no matter who you need, the police are always first on the scene. You learn a little bit of emergency care, just in case you are first on a scene and you need to prevent them from dying until the EMT/Paramedics get to the sceme.

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-uk View Post
    I'm glad that he revived, but I think you'll find that he wasn't actually frozen. As others have pointed out, if his organs had frozen he wouldn't be slithering now. There's a handful of animals that can survive freezing, but as a rule, freezing causes massive cell damage and turns internal organs to mush.
    Can you also give me some pointers as to how to find the heart to perform CPR on a garter if I need to? I'd be stuffed if I had to try to find the heart and massage one of mine back to life.


    Just to digress...
    Stefan - when I was in Christmas over New Year nearly 20 years ago, my friend told me that you get cases every year of people getting drunk, falling asleep on the way home without a hat on, and their brains freezing. Apparently the ones that they manage to revive are often vegetables. Is that an urban legend in Finland, or does it happen?

    If he wasn't frozen, what were the SOLID chunks along his body? They felt like ice. Plus how about if he hadn't been frozen long enough to destroy the tissue? Honestly It is about 1/5-1/4 the length down the snake. I wasn't sure of the heart location either, so I took the brightest light I had, and shined it through him (he is albino, I could see through him) and located the heart (it is longer than a human heart).

    -Greg
    1.1T.s. concinnus, 1.1 T.s. parietalis, 1.0 T.s. semifasciatus, 0.1 T. radix
    "Garters are predictable. Predictably variable" - Neil Balchan


  9. #19
    Adult snake Greg'sGarters's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

    This is an update on Freeze's status. He is currently doing MUCH better. He has not showed any signs of neurological damage. He is flicking his tongue at a normal speed. However, he is still very lethargic. He has showed more interest in moving and his reaction time has improved. I will continue to keep you all updated.
    -Greg
    1.1T.s. concinnus, 1.1 T.s. parietalis, 1.0 T.s. semifasciatus, 0.1 T. radix
    "Garters are predictable. Predictably variable" - Neil Balchan


  10. #20
    Subadult snake garterchick's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

    This time of year it's just plain dumb to try to ship them, regardless of what your local temp might be. (shipper should have known better) Just look at that cold air mass on the national map. You just don't want to risk the snake going through that during the trip. Even if you're shipping from one of the warmer states, to another warm state, they sometimes don't take a direct route and end up freezing.

    Hopefully your snake wasn't exposed for too long. Ive seen them get cold enough that they were close to death, but make a full recovery. The critical factor is how long they were that cold.

    Ship snakes in this? In January? A person would have to be really stupid, or just doesn't care
    .

    So here's the thing: I'm the shipper and no, I'm not plain dumb, really stupid or uncareing. What Greg didn't tell everyone is that I did hold off on shipping for several days because of temperatures regardless of how many texts he sent me trying to convince me it would be fine. Only when the projected temps at both ends allowed for save shipping did I aggree to do so. Yes, maybe I sholud not have shipped him regardless, hindsight is 20/20, but I did the best I could by insulating the box really well and by including a heatpack.
    So, to those of you that feel the need to resort to name-calling without knowing all the facts, please inform yourselves and be a little less judgemental.
    Thank you,
    tina, aka garterchick

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