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  1. #21
    Former Moderator Cazador's Avatar
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    Re: Need help Urgently

    I know the link between UV light and Vit B1 production, but I have no idea how UV light and cloacolith formation are linked? Can anyone help make the connection? Since UV light can't penetrate glass, anyway, I don't know what the vet is saying.

    I'm sure that the "average" life expectancy has a lot to do with husbandry, and the individual snake's ability to acclimate. I can tell you this for certain, though, the vast majority of wild snakes die before seeing their first birthday. They produce a lot of offspring, but provide little, if any, parental care (it varies by species). I've read online sources that have claimed the "average" life expectancy to be about 10 years for well cared for snakes, but I doubt this was a particularily comprehensive survey. Another book I was just reviewing claimed the life expectancy for captive garters to be between 5 and 12 years. The rare captive garter snake has reportedly lived 18 years, or was it 20 years? It was one of the two. Again, your snake seems to have beat the odds and lived a long life. Despite the vet's comment, they just don't live forever. You were lucky, skilled, or both to have kept your snake for so long.
    Rick

    Can anyone please clarify the connection between UV light and cloacoliths? I can sure explain the connection between rough handling, stress, mineralocorticoid/glucocorticoid release, and death.

  2. #22
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    Re: Need help Urgently

    Quote Originally Posted by Cazador View Post
    I know the link between UV light and Vit B1 production, but I have no idea how UV light and cloacolith formation are linked? Can anyone help make the connection? Since UV light can't penetrate glass, anyway, I don't know what the vet is saying.

    I'm sure that the "average" life expectancy has a lot to do with husbandry, and the individual snake's ability to acclimate. I can tell you this for certain, though, the vast majority of wild snakes die before seeing their first birthday. They produce a lot of offspring, but provide little, if any, parental care (it varies by species). I've read online sources that have claimed the "average" life expectancy to be about 10 years for well cared for snakes, but I doubt this was a particularily comprehensive survey. Another book I was just reviewing claimed the life expectancy for captive garters to be between 5 and 12 years. The rare captive garter snake has reportedly lived 18 years, or was it 20 years? It was one of the two. Again, your snake seems to have beat the odds and lived a long life. Despite the vet's comment, they just don't live forever. You were lucky, skilled, or both to have kept your snake for so long.
    Rick

    Can anyone please clarify the connection between UV light and cloacoliths? I can sure explain the connection between rough handling, stress, mineralocorticoid/glucocorticoid release, and death.
    No, she didn't say they were connected, but she said she was supprised that my snake lived as long as he did without a UV Light.

    I never had a UV light, and when I told here this, she was supprised. But he was one tough snake to the end.

  3. #23
    Brother Snake GarterGuy's Avatar
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    Re: Need help Urgently

    It really sounds like the vet is mistaking the care of basking lizards like iguanas and bearded dragons with the care of snakes. I've had snakes for over 20yrs. now (even have one that just celebrated her 15th year, this summer) and none of them have exposure to high enough levels of UVA or UVB to really affect anything in their health. I think for snakes, like garters that are day active, exposure to full spectrum lighting is beneficial, pyschologically for them, but people have been keeping and breeding snakes for years with out the benefits of UV lighting. Most of your breeders of snakes use rack type systems for housing snakes in "tubs" that are not lit at all except for just room light.
    Roy
    0.1 T.s.pallidulus

  4. #24
    Former Moderator Cazador's Avatar
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    Re: Need help Urgently

    Hmmm, I had the same thought as Roy. The literature I've read (written by snake-specialist veterinarians and others) says that unlike basking lizards, garters don't need UV lighting, particularily if they're supplemented with Vit B. I use full spectrum lights and IR heat bulbs, but my lights shine through the side of the glass or plastic, meaning the snakes aren't receiving the UV wavelengths.
    Rick

  5. #25
    Forum Moderator Stefan-A's Avatar
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    Re: Need help Urgently

    UVA should penetrate glass, even if the shorter UVB and UVC won't.

  6. #26
    Mr Thamnophis ssssnakeluvr's Avatar
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    Re: Need help Urgently

    As far as I know, snakes do not need UVB light...lizards and turtles do. I have raised many snakes over the years and they have lived to decent ages without the light.....

  7. #27
    Truieneer, e ras apoat Snaky's Avatar
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    Re: Need help Urgently

    I agree with all the rest. Although you can always give it to them, it wouldn't hurt, but it's not needed. It's needed with lizards, turtles, ...

  8. #28
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    Re: Need help Urgently

    Quote Originally Posted by Cazador View Post
    Hmmm, I had the same thought as Roy. The literature I've read (written by snake-specialist veterinarians and others) says that unlike basking lizards, garters don't need UV lighting, particularily if they're supplemented with Vit B. I use full spectrum lights and IR heat bulbs, but my lights shine through the side of the glass or plastic, meaning the snakes aren't receiving the UV wavelengths.
    Rick
    Yea, she was saying that UV light doesn't penetrate glass, but I don't know. My snake would always use to lay by the sun coming through the window and get some sun. Also, is Vitamin B in fish as I hear? That is probably a reason why he lived as long as he did. His diet was fish and occasionally green tree frogs.

  9. #29
    Truieneer, e ras apoat Snaky's Avatar
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    Re: Need help Urgently

    There was a rather big talk about vitamin B(1) in this thread, starting from page 4:
    thread
    I would suggest reading it, it's very interesting to know. Because some fish contain vitamine B1, but other contain an enzyme that destroys vitamine B1 actively.

  10. #30
    Dutch, bold and Thamnophis-crazy Thamnophis's Avatar
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    Re: Need help Urgently

    Alternative, your snakes lays in the sun because the sunlight is much intenser than the light of the lamp.
    That is the reason, not the UV.


    By the way, Uv light has nothing to do with vitamin B.

    UV light has connections with vitamin D3.
    It is always advisable to be a loser if you cannot become a winner. Frank Zappa

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