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Thread: Taxonomy?

  1. #1
    Hi, I'm New Here! Pitchfire's Avatar
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    Taxonomy?

    I have found a lot of information on recent Taxonomy debates regarding garter snake and specifically T. elegans. Anybody following this evolution of taxonomy? Is this the current best taxonomy?

    CNAH - Standard Common and Current Scientific Names
    Species Guide - gartersnake.info
    THE REPTILE DATABASE


    1. Pacific Coast Aquatic Garter Snake
      Thamnophis atratus (Kennicott, 1860)
    2. Bogertís Garter Snake
      Thamnophis bogerti Rossman and Burbrink, 2005
    3. Short-headed Garter Snake
      Thamnophis brachystoma (Cope, 1892)
    4. Butlerís Garter Snake
      Thamnophis butleri (Cope, 1889)
    5. Golden-headed Garter Snake
      Thamnophis chrysocephalus (Cope, 1885)
    6. Conantís Garter Snake
      Thamnophis conanti Rossman and Burbrink, 2005
    7. Sierra Garter Snake
      Thamnophis couchii (Kennicott, 1859)
    8. Black-necked Garter Snake
      Thamnophis cyrtopsis (Kennicott, 1860)
    9. Western Terrestrial Garter Snake
      Thamnophis elegans (Baird and Girard, 1853)
    10. Mexican Garter Snake
      Thamnophis eques (Reuss, 1834)
    11. Mexican Wandering Garter Snake
      Thamnophis errans (H. M. Smith, 1942)
    12. Exiled Garter Snake
      Thamnophis exsul Rossman 1969
    13. Mesoamerican Highlands Garter Snake
      Thamnophis fulvus (Bocourt, 1893)
    14. Giant Garter Snake
      Thamnophis gigas (Fitch, 1940)
    15. Godmanís Garter Snake
      Thamnophis godmani (GŁnther, 1894)
    16. Two-striped Garter Snake
      Thamnophis hammondii (Kennicott, 1860)
    17. Linerís Garter Snake
      Thamnophis lineri Rossman and Burbrink, 2005
    18. Checkered Garter Snake
      Thamnophis marcianus (Baird and Girard, 1853)
    19. Mexican Black-bellied Garter Snake
      Thamnophis melanogaster (Peters, 1864)
    20. Tamaulipan Montane Garter Snake
      Thamnophis mendax Walker, 1955
    21. Southern Durango Spotted Garter Snake
      Thamnophis nigronuchalis Thompson, 1957
    22. Northwestern Garter Snake
      Thamnophis ordinoides (Baird and Girard, 1852)
    23. Tepalcatepec Valley Garter Snake
      Thamnophis postremus H. M. Smith, 1942
    24. Western Ribbon Snake
      Thamnophis proximus (Say, 1823)
    25. Yellow-throated Garter Snake
      Thamnophis pulchrilatus (Cope, 1885)
    26. Plains Garter Snake
      Thamnophis radix (Baird and Girard, 1853)
    27. Rossmanís Garter Snake
      Thamnophis rossmani Conant, 2000
    28. Narrow-headed Garter Snake
      Thamnophis rufipunctatus (Cope, 1875)
    29. Eastern Ribbon Snake
      Thamnophis sauritus (Linnaeus, 1766)
    30. Mexican Alpine Blotched Garter Snake
      Thamnophis scalaris Cope, 1861
    31. Mesa Central Blotched Garter Snake
      Thamnophis scaliger (Jan, 1863)
    32. Common Garter Snake
      Thamnophis sirtalis (Linnaeus, 1758)
    33. Sumichrastís Garter Snake
      Thamnophis sumichrasti (Cope, 1866)
    34. Mexican Pacific Lowlands Garter Snake
      Thamnophis validus (Kennicott, 1860)

  2. #2
    Adult snake
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    Re: Taxonomy?

    I believe someone posted something the other day about name changes, but I haven't paid much attention to it. People are going to use the names they've always used and I'm no longer in academia so I'm not concerned about it

  3. #3
    T.s. affectionado EasternGirl's Avatar
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    Re: Taxonomy?

    That looks correct at a quick glance...not including the subspecies. Most of us on the forum use the book...The Garter Snakes: Evolution and Ecology, By Rossman, Ford, and Seigel...for taxonomy reference. I think the name change thing you are talking about was a hoax started by someone on the internet.
    Marnie
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  4. #4
    T.s. affectionado EasternGirl's Avatar
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    Re: Taxonomy?

    I just looked and according to the Evolution and Ecology book...there are 30 species...so I'm not sure which on the list you have above would no longer be considered a species. Another member may be able to comment on that.
    Marnie
    3.3 T.s.sirtalis 1.0 T.marcianus 1.2 T.radix 1.0 T.s.parietalis
    Izzy, Seeley, Ziggy, Perseus, Peanut, Snapper, Hermes, Sadie, Osiris, Seraphina, Little Joe


  5. #5
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Taxonomy?

    Here's what I have at this time.
    iczn.org (
    International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature)
    is down right now so I can get the most current.

    1. Thamnophis angustirostris (Longnose Garter Snake)

    2. Thamnophis atratus (Pacific Coast Aquatic Garter Snake)
    T. a. atratus (Santa Cruz garter snake)
    T. a. hydrophilus (Oregon garter snake)
    T. a. zaxanthus (Diablo Range garter snake)

    3. Thamnophis bogerti (Bogert's Garter Snake)

    4. Thamnophis brachystoma (Short-Headed Garter Snake)

    5. Thamnophis butleri (Butler's Garter Snake)

    6. Thamnophis chrysocephalus (Golden-Headed Garter Snake)

    7. Thamnophis conanti (Conant's Garter Snake)

    8. Thamnophis couchii (Sierra Garter Snake)

    9. Thamnophis cyrtopsis (Black-Necked Garter Snake)
    T. c. collaris (Tropical blackneck garter snake)
    T. c. cyrtopsis (Western blackneck garter snake)
    T. c. ocellatus (Eastern blackneck garter snake)

    10. Thamnophis elegans (Western Terrestial Garter Snake)
    T. e. elegans (Mountain garter snake)
    T. e. terrestris (Coast garter snake)
    T. e. vagrans (Wandering garter snake)

    11. Thamnophis eques (Mexican Garter Snake)
    T. e. eques (Mexican garter snake)
    T. e, carmenensis
    T. e. cuitzeoensis
    T. e. diluvialis
    T. e. insperatus
    T. e. obscurus
    T. e. patzcuaroensis
    T. e. scotti
    T. e. megalops (Northern Mexican garter snake)
    T. e. virgatenuis

    12. Thamnophis errans (Mexican Wandering Garter Snake)

    13. Thamnophis exsul (Exiled Garter Snake)

    14. Thamnophis fulvus (Mesoamerican Highlands Garter Snake)

    15. Thamnophis gigas (Giant Garter Snake)

    16. Thamnophis godmani (Godman's Garter Snake)

    17. Thamnophis hammondii (Two-Striped Garter Snake)

    18. Thamnophis lineri (Liner's Garter Snake)

    19. Thamnophis marcianus (Checkered Garter Snake)
    T. m. bovallii
    T. m. marcianus
    T. m. praeocularis

    20. Thamnophis melanogaster (Mexican Black-Bellied Garter Snake)
    T. m. canescens (Gray blackbelly garter snake)
    T. m. chihuahuaensis (Chihuahuan blackbelly garter snake)
    T. m. linearis (Lined blackbelly garter snake)
    T. m. melanogaster (Mexican blackbelly garter snake)

    21. Thamnophis mendax (Tamaulipan Montane Garter Snake)

    22. Thamnophis nigronuchalis (Southern Durango Spotted Garter Snake)

    23. Thamnophis ordinoides (Northwestern Garter Snake)

    24. Thamnophis postremus (Tepalcatepec Valley Garter Snake)

    25. Thamnophis proximus (Western Ribbon Snake)
    T. p. alpinus (Chiapas Highland ribbon snake)
    T. p. diabolicus (Aridland ribbon snake)
    T. p. orarius (Gulf coast ribbon snake)
    T. p. proximus (Western ribbon snake)
    T. p. rubrilineatus (Redstripe ribbon snake)
    T. p. rutiloris (Mexican ribbon snake)

    26. Thamnophis pulchrilatus (Yellow-Throated Garter Snake)

    27. Thamnophis radix (Great Plains Garter Snake, Plains Garter Snake)

    28. Thamnophis rossmani (Rossman's Garter Snake)

    29. Thamnophis rufipunctatus (Narrow-Headed Garter Snake)

    30. Thamnophis sauritus (Eastern Ribbon Snake)
    T. s. nitae (Bluestripe ribbon snake)
    T. s. sackenii (Peninsula ribbon snake)
    T. s. sauritus (Eastern ribbon snake)
    T. s. septentrionalis (Northern ribbon snake)

    31. Thamnophis scalaris (Mexican Alpine Blotched Garter Snake, Longtail Alpine Garter Snake)

    32. Thamnophis scaliger (Mesa Central Blotched Garter Snake, Short-tail Alpine Garter Snake)

    33. Thamnophis sirtalis (Common Garter Snake)
    T. s. annectens (Texas garter snake)
    T. s. concinnus (Red-spotted garter snake)
    T. s. dorsalis (New Mexico garter snake)
    T. s. fitchi (Valley garter snake)
    T. s. infernalis (California red-sided garter snake)
    T. s. pallidulus (Maritime garter snake)
    T. s. parietalis (Red-sided garter snake)
    T. s. pickeringii (Puget Sound garter snake)
    T. s. semifasciatus (Chicago garter snake)
    T. s. similis (Blue-striped garter snake)
    T. s. sirtalis (Eastern garter snake)
    T. s. tetrataenia (San Francisco garter snake)

    34. Thamnophis sumichrasti (Sumichrast's Garter Snake)

    35. Thamnophis validus (Mexican Pacific Lowlands Garter Snake)
    T. v. celaeno
    T. v. isabelleae
    T. v. thamnophisoides
    T. v. validus
    Steve
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    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
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  6. #6
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Taxonomy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    I believe someone posted something the other day about name changes, but I haven't paid much attention to it. People are going to use the names they've always used and I'm no longer in academia so I'm not concerned about it

    The post you are referring to was a rant from an upset new member.
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

  7. #7
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Didymus20X6's Avatar
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    Re: Taxonomy?

    Yeah. That list had a bunch of made-up names in it. This list actually has what appear to be genuine snake names.
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff.

  8. #8
    Hi, I'm New Here! Pitchfire's Avatar
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    Re: Taxonomy?

    Several of the sites I have seen have referrenced "Evolution and Ecology" as already outdated in that respect. One change was moving the 'Mexican Wandering" out of S. Elegans and into S. Eques. Not sure if "Evolution and Ecology" has that change. I'll try to find the sites that mentioned it as outdated. Here's one:
    The Thirty-First Garter Snake - gartersnake.info
    Taxonomy waits for no one. A decade after the publication of the definitive reference on garter snakes — The Garter Snakes: Evolution and Ecology by Rossman, Ford and Seigel, which listed 30 species of garter snake — there have been a few changes to the taxonomy set out in that book.

    Those changes that have taken place among the species north of the U.S.-Mexico border are relatively easy to follow; they’re well documented online. Thanks to the Center for North American Herpetology’s web site, we know that Boundy and Rossman’s proposal to synonymize the San Francisco Garter Snake (Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia) with T. s. infernalis and rearrange the west coast subspecies of the Common Garter Snake has been rejected, and that the validity of both the Blue-striped Garter Snake (T. s. similis) and the Blue-striped Ribbon Snake (T. sauritus nitae) — both originally described by Rossman — has been challenged, as have most of the subspecies of the Western Terrestrial Garter Snake (Thamnophis elegans).1 On the other hand, a new subspecies of the Pacific Coast Aquatic Garter Snake (Thamnophis atratus), the Diablo Garter Snake (T. a. zaxanthus), was described in 1999......

  9. #9
    Hi, I'm New Here! Pitchfire's Avatar
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    Re: Taxonomy?

    And then CNAH lists quite a few relevant articles on their pdf search.

    And another:
    GARTER - Snake Identification

    My uncle was looking for a record of a species he located in Mexico and could not find. He contacted Scott Felzer and he didn't know, so I forwarded him to the "thirsty" article and others. It would be nice to have one authoritative complete constantly updated list to refer to thus my post here and search. Thanks for the interest!

  10. #10
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Taxonomy?

    Correct me if I'm wrong but don't all taxonomy changes have to go through the ICZN board.
    International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

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