Luke SkyWalker vs. Darth Vader

[lukeskywalker]

I can appreciate that the post about my snake turned into a Star Wars thread, and then a drinking thread, and then a random comment thread, because thats how many of my conversations evolve as well.

But on to Luke He still isn't eating... he will sniff at the food, but other than that he is not very interested. He is fairly active, although he has slowed down a little lately. So... now what?? Am I being impatient? Is it possible for a snake to just lose the desire to eat forever if they are fed too much?

[Cazador]

Hi Courtney,

Not to toot my own horn, but I mentioned in the first post on this topic (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/626-my-snake-wont-eat.html#post7441) that it would probably eat very little for the next 2-3 weeks. I only point this out (and the fact that we drifted so far from the main point) to illustrated that this "fast" was predictable, and wasn't alarming to people at the time. At the same time, I realize how alarming it can be to the person whose snake isn't eating. Whenever there's a real problem, we stay pretty focused, but given what a great feeder it was, its fast isn't completely unexpected.

I'm betting that the snake is a bit obese, but a picture would sure help. If it isn't overweight, then the issue becomes more serious. Would you mind posting a picture when you get a chance? Here are directions for http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/site-feedback-suggestions-questions/181-posting-pictures.html.

If the snake looks a bit plump, and since it hasn't eaten since approximately 17-18 March (about 3.5 weeks), you have a couple of options. First, you could continue trying to present different food items at 2-3 day intervals to see if one particular smell interests it. Don't leave food in the enclosure for over an hour, though... let the smell clear so the snake doesn't become "conditioned" to the smell of food. Alternatively, you have the option of putting it down for a short brumation. Around fall time, the common mantra is that if a snake voluntarily skips three consecutive weekly meals, you might want to consider putting it down for brumation. In fact, many snakes just refuse to eat and have to be put down. Brumation normally "resets" their appetite and is a natural part of their life cycle. A 2-3 week fast is the status quo for people who want to put their snakes into brumation, so you're not out of the window of normalcy, yet. Your snake's timing for brumation may have just been thrown off a bit due to its captivity... particularly if it's a yearling. Let me ask just a couple of questions to help us get to the heart of the matter.

1) I'm gathering from your 2nd post that you got the snake in mid-to-late January, right?

2) Was it wild caught and given to you or purchased from a store?

3) How long is it now?

4) What food items have you tried to feed it (besides worms and fish)?

5) How often have you been trying to feed it?

6) Is its skin a bit stretched between the scales (around its circumference)? Even if not, please post a picture, and we'll do our best to give further help.

7) If it's not a bit overweight at this point, there might be another issue at work, which is a bit more serious. Do you know what type of "minnows" you've been feeding?

[adamanteus]

Courtney, My apologies for your previous thread going so far off track, I'm afraid that was mostly my fault. As Rick says, a picture of your snake would help, then we can see if he is indeed overweight. After a fast of 3.5 weeks I would expect him to start eating again round about now. Just to be certain, it might be worth while checking all the other environmental considerations; temperature, humidity, photo-period etc. Just keep offering him as wide a variety of food items as you can over the next few days. Good luck and keep us posted.....We'll stay focused this time!

[Snaky]

My cyrtopsis also have some long periods sometimes between dinners. After a while you get used to their behaviour. I just wait another week and give them something again. So it's certainly not uncommon that they don't eat for a longer period.

Of course it's not always nothing and Cazador's question will indeed help in determing whether it might be more serious or not.

[adamanteus]

Snaky, do you see an underlying pattern in your cyrtopsis fasting? Seasonal, sloughing etc? It might be less worrying for people if than can figure out the reasons why their snakes are refusing food.

[Snaky]

Since cyrtopsis has often a long brumation period and a small active period, I thaught this might help explain why. I've never treated their brumation differently as other species. So they have a very good eating period during (May)-June-July-August. During the other months they sometimes wait for weeks, especially the males. The females need some good food source to produce the young, but the males don't need anything like that. They can do a month on only a small amount of fish.

I've never kept good records about this though (Not that of a statistics guy). So this is my perception on keeping them for some years.

[adamanteus]

What other species are you keeping? Have you known others to go on self-imposed fasts?

[Cazador]

I don't remember if we've already mentioned this, but males often seem to go off food in the spring as their attention turns toward reproduction, particularily when a female isn't around. We'll probably see a lot more males refuse to eat in the coming months, but be sure to post those pictures just to be sure.

Rick

[drache]

I don't remember if we've already mentioned this, but males often seem to go off food in the spring as their attention turns toward reproduction, particularily when a female isn't around. We'll probably see a lot more males refuse to eat in the coming months, but be sure to post those pictures just to be sure.

Rick

quick question: do you find this to be true for most species of snakes with similar seasonal patterns?

[adamanteus]

With regard to males in the mating season...yes. Is that what you meant?

[drache]

With regard to males in the mating season...yes. Is that what you meant?

yes
exactly
I seem to remember that it's true for certain mammal species also

[adamanteus]

I think it is probably true of many species. I think perhaps only humans like to wine and dine before "the deed"!!:D :o

[Josh]

i dont really think so how long have u had this snake
-

[drache]

I do believe that food means different things to snakes and humans

I've become a lot more relaxed about snakes not eating

if they seem otherwise fine, I figure, they just don't feel like it for whatever reason
I don't feed them when they're going into shed
I skip meals
they're still feeding off the fat of the early years
I had to go to overfeeders anonymous
and endure my vet's lectures about heart disease

[Snaky]

What other species are you keeping? Have you known others to go on self-imposed fasts?
-Concinnus and marcianus.
-No. I really need to keep a very slow feeding pace with them. They will just eat anytime (except snails:D) and as much as possible. The cyrtopsis has always been a little different with eating habits.

Although, like already mentioned, males of other species sometimes don't eat during the mating season. Another thing is sometimes snakes don't eat when they don't feel at ease ( fe to little hiding spots, someone watching, ... but as from the explanation it was eating ok before so this won't be it probably ) or when they are about to shed.

[lukeskywalker]

Thanks for all the input! I tried to post a picture, but the file is 895 KB, and that is way too big... I don't know how to shrink it or even if that is possible.
I think that he is probably searching for a female, because he started getting alot more active around the same time that he stopped eating. Is there anything I can do for him, other than introducing him to a bodacious lady snake?
By the way, I was only feeding him earthworms and rosy minnows, because he was fairly small when I got him. What else can I feed him, other than mice? He was from a pet store, although I felt silly buying a native snake, lol. It's just that I would rather have a garter than any other kind of snake, they seem to have alot more personality.


WarGirl and Luke Skywalker

[Cazador]

It might be easier to take another picture at a lower resolution. We're not looking for fine details... just the size and shape of the snake. It would also help if you could include a ruler or even a dollar bill (6" long) in the picture to give a frame of reference.

You can get some ideas for other food items here (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet).

[lukeskywalker]

Here is a picture of him eating about a month ago.

[drache]

did he just swallow something right before this photo was taken?

[Cazador]

Hi Courtney,

Sorry, but all I can tell from the picture is that it's in the process of eating a worm. I can't tell anything about the body, other than that it has a large girth a few inches behind its head. I can't tell if that's due to a recently swallowed worm or if the whole snake is a bit overweight, though. Therefore unfortunately, the picture doesn't help solve our problem :(. Have you had any recent luck offering it worms?

Rick

[KITKAT]

I have a question that might be revealing...

When you handle Luke, can you feel any lumps inside him, along the length of his body?

[Cazador]

Ohhhhhh, you're a clever one, Kitkat ;). Perhaps we've overlooked something much simpler :)??? Weren't Luke and Leah twins?