New Garter owner: food question?

[NancyG]

Hello everyone! Last week I was given an Iowa Red Sided garter.. Sex unknown, approximately 1 year old (named Persephone) this is my first experience with garters. So I've been reading up on them here.

The previous owner fed her/him Tilapia only. The reading I did before getting P mentioned pinkie mice and earthworms as well, and the care sheet (this site) mentioned supplementing with Calcium with Vitamin D if the food source lacked bones.

I have fed this tiny little girl/guy twice now, offering small chunks of tilapia along with a couple pieces of mouse tail (from mice I have for my 4 corns) Each time she/he has readily eaten one of the tail pieces offered in addition to the fish.

Will this be enough or should I still consider some sort of vitamin D and/or calcium supplement?

The tail bits seem to be a great solution: Lots of bone with a little meat/blood, easy for me to get(I already have them), easy shape-similar to worms, though I could always snip off feet to feed if needed, This snake is small, I don't think even a small pinky could be managed without being cut up smaller.


I'm sure I will have tons of questions, but for now this is the most important to me I want to know if I'm doing the right thing for this guy. She came with her tote/furniture and feeding box so I'm guessing her skittishness is that she still senses a new place, (and being captive bred from wild caught parents)
Oh and.. is there a way to determine sex without a vet visit to be probed?

Thank you all for whatever advice you can offer.

[chris-uk]

Welcome aboard.

Several questions you had there, so I'll do my best not to miss any.

Feeding - tilapia alone won't have had enough calcium for a long-term diet. Getting some mouse tails into her is a good step, but I'd still want to do more. Either sprinkling a calcium+D3 supplement on the tilapia, or getting her to eat whole (chopped into pieces if necessary for size) pinkies mixed in with her tilapia.

Regards to sexing, most garters a relatively easy to sex visually. Search for forum for "sexing pictures" and you'll find a thread thread that shows examples of positive ID photos, if you post similar photos in a thread you'll get opinions from the collective wisdom of the forum.

Species of your garter snake - I'm assuming it's a Red-sided Garter (Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis) from Iowa? As there isn't an Iowa Red Sided Garter. Maybe a little pedantic, but there are times when knowing the correct common and scientific name will be important for you.

Garters can take weeks to adjust to a new environment sometimes, don't rush her and you'll have a lovely active snake.

Say hi in the welcome forum too.

[guidofatherof5]

Welcome aboard.

Several questions you had there, so I'll do my best not to miss any.

Feeding - tilapia alone won't have had enough calcium for a long-term diet. Getting some mouse tails into her is a good step, but I'd still want to do more. Either sprinkling a calcium+D3 supplement on the tilapia, or getting her to eat whole (chopped into pieces if necessary for size) pinkies mixed in with her tilapia.

Regards to sexing, most garters a relatively easy to sex visually. Search for forum for "sexing pictures" and you'll find a thread thread that shows examples of positive ID photos, if you post similar photos in a thread you'll get opinions from the collective wisdom of the forum.

Species of your garter snake - I'm assuming it's a Red-sided Garter (Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis) from Iowa? As there isn't an Iowa Red Sided Garter. Maybe a little pedantic, but there are times when knowing the correct common and scientific name will be important for you.

Garters can take weeks to adjust to a new environment sometimes, don't rush her and you'll have a lovely active snake.

Say hi in the welcome forum too.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/bree...xing-pics.html

[ConcinusMan]

I too have iowa red sided's from Steve ^^^. They aren't picky. Mine have taken tilapia, worms, slugs, and chopped pinkies.

Bones are not the only source of calcium. There are sources much easier to digest and absorb. DO NOT underestimate the calcium content of certain food items. Even just tilapia fillet has significant calcium. Worms concentrate calcium from the soil and are an adequate source in spite of all the misinformation out there. Especially if the worms are kept in rich black leaf compost with bone meal added. The bowel content of the worms is quite high in calcium. Slugs feeding on dark leafy greens are also rich in calcium.

I never use supplements and I've never had any sort of nutritional problems in 30 years. It's too dang easy to overdose and cause worse problems than just a mild deficiency would cause. Better to vary and rotate the diet and supplements won't be necessary. If your snake will take pinkies and you make the diet at least 60% rodents you will see amazing growth. On just tilapia and maybe the occasional supplement you won't have any major deficiencies per se, but the snakes growth rate will be mediocre at best.

Give them mainly rodents and you won't have to feed as often and no supplements are necessary. I just make sure rodents are a major component of the diet and they grow fast and thrive. It's also OK to give them mostly worms and fish, and just the occasional pinky but you need to feed much more often and as I said, gut load the worms with rich black compost and bone meal.

Be extremely careful where you get your tilapia and avoid any that comes from China. Even if it's not on the ingredients label, Chinese tilapia often has sodium phosphates in it "to retain moisture" and it's a preservative that causes renal failure in reptiles. Sometimes one bite is all it takes and your snake will die rapidly. BE CAREFUL source it from Mexico or the USA and read the ingredients!!!

Here's a little tool to help you visually sex any garter snake. It's not difficult. They are sexually dimorphic. It just takes a little practice to get the hang of it. It's a little more difficult if they are under 12 inches, but not impossible.

[Foxrun402]

If you go to pet stores... you could look for Sally's Frozen Silversides..... Whole frozen silversides.... bones and all.... If your garter is already accepting Tilapia then it will most likely accept these... I would definatly consider pinkie mice and nightcralwers.... pinkies are a good whole nutrition and the nightcrawlers should help keep the digestive tract cleaner...

I use Sally Frozen Silversides... DMF Bait Co. Night-Crawlers... and I just recently started getting my mice from RodentPro

[NancyG]

Thank you everyone who has replied! my apologies for not posting sooner.
Based on internet picture searches my snake is Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis, though I think his color is a bit 'dirtier' than some of the pictures out there..
I found out a bit more from his previous owner, His mother was wild caught, and pregnant when captured.
Based on the sexing pics. I think he's male, the tail seems pretty long, and does not sharply taper at the cloaca - So I think Persephone is a Perseus.

Thank you on the food help! I will check into the Silver Sides. The nightcrawlers I've seen at the pet store are HUGE, I don't think he could eat a whole one, and they are thick enough I'm not sure he could get pieces down. But perhaps I can try it. The previous owner did post on this site trying to find a home for him, and mentioned here that he was eating several foods.

Based on what I'm reading about these guys.. I'm rather surprised they are not more commonly seen as pets, The food variety makes them easier to feed, and it seems like they are more interactive. They don't get very big (drawback and a plus both?) and the some of the morphs are amazing.

[kueluck]

Nancy, happy you're enjoying your new family member (still waiting for pics). On the worm note, make sure they are Canadian Night Crawlers and NOT Trout worms, trout worms are toxic to your boy. At Wal-Mart you can get the full size or smaller size Night Crawlers.

[ConcinusMan]

I think his color is a bit 'dirtier' than some of the pictures out there..

They vary in color and pattern from place to place (and individuals in a population can vary in appearance) just like any other garter species or subspecies. But if you're sure he's from Iowa locality it's very easy to I.D. since the only other garters there aren't likely to be mistaken for a red sided.

Thank you on the food help! I will check into the Silver Sides. The nightcrawlers I've seen at the pet store are HUGE, I don't think he could eat a whole one

Size doesn't matter. You want to cut them even if your snake is 3ft because whole live ones have a tendency to crawl right back out after being swallowed. I feed even huge night crawlers to newborn snakes you just have to cut them up. Sharp scissors works best.

Based on what I'm reading about these guys.. I'm rather surprised they are not more commonly seen as pets, The food variety makes them easier to feed, and it seems like they are more interactive. They don't get very big (drawback and a plus both?) and the some of the morphs are amazing.

I think you just nailed some key reasons why we like them so much.