Feeding Frogs?

[DrKate]

my thinking is that whatever people can catch in their yards probably has less of a parasite load than anything that's been cycled through the pet industry

Yes and no... Diseases do spread better in dense, stressed-out populations such as feeder breeding colonies, and some parasites can thrive under those conditions. BUT... Many parasite species require more than one host species to complete their life cycle - for example, a vertebrate and an invertebrate host - so wild-caught prey that have been living outdoors in a natural environment really do have more of those kind of parasites.

There is also the fact that parasites usually adapt to particular host species. In their normal host, they don't to much harm and are pretty much just along for the ride. But if they get into an *abnormal* host, they can cause severe illness. So a perfectly healthy wild-caught frog could be carrying a parasite that would make your snake very sick (this scenario is most likely for the lungworms already mentioned). Unfortunately, dissecting a specimen and seeing how many parasites you can find doesn't tell you much about whether any of those could in fact spread to your snakes (unless you can identify the parasites and know their biology). If the parasites in your local frogs can't spread to snakes, then eating a parasite-laden frog is just that much more nutrition for the snake.

So my guess is, there are risks to each kind of food source. I wish I could offer more specific information than that. I don't know enough about the parasites of snakes (or frogs/fish/mice/earthworms) to know which parasites and therefore which food sources are most worrisome. And of course, in the case of the wild-caught foods, risks change depending on where you are, what species exactly you're feeding, what time of year it is...

I don't want to make any promises I can't keep, but I may be able to ask some bona fide parasitologists what they think about what prey items are "cleaner" in terms of parasites that would harm snakes. If I get anything useful I'll post back here, since so many of us are using wild-caught prey of one kind or another (even earthworms are part of the life cycle of some parasites).

[Stefan-A]

Unfortunately, dissecting a specimen and seeing how many parasites you can find doesn't tell you much about whether any of those could in fact spread to your snakes (unless you can identify the parasites and know their biology).

So true. However, my point was first and foremost to address the question whether or not they are parasite-laden.

I don't want to make any promises I can't keep, but I may be able to ask some bona fide parasitologists what they think about what prey items are "cleaner" in terms of parasites that would harm snakes. If I get anything useful I'll post back here, since so many of us are using wild-caught prey of one kind or another (even earthworms are part of the life cycle of some parasites).

That would be greatly appreciated.

[celticguitar]

That is a very good question. I think collecting frogs from an area where this an abundance of frog won't destroy the population if you are the only one doing it. There is a local woodland pond where they are so many Green and leapord frogs you almost step on them walking along the edge of the pond. I see atl east 4-5 garter snakes with a casual look. I read that frogs are a good marker as to the cleanlyness of a pond as far as pesticides and this pond has a ton. I saw in a 2 foot area near the shore at least a hundred newly morphed frogs and toads (spade foots!) etc. So there is plenty to eat. As far as parasite load goes? I guess if it's a clean area the load would less? but not nil and I think all live stuff even pet store unless it's frozen dead mice are going to have bacteria and probably parasites because do you think they really care?. If you have a good healthy specimen of snake with a nice clean healthy enviroment I don't think they would overwhelmed but the occasional frog. My garters are wild caught and they look healthy clean and active they came form this pond area I spoke of but I feed them worms and guppies although one ate a frog on the way home because I did have a seperate container for the snake and frog ooops
Dwight

[Stefan-A]

That is a very good question. I think collecting frogs from an area where this an abundance of frog won't destroy the population if you are the only one doing it.

It would depend on the total amount removed from the area.

[celticguitar]

It would depend on the total amount removed from the area.

True but if you are only taking one or 2 I doubt that's much of an impact. I am not advocating it the place I go to is probably over populated as it is and there would a natural die off to keep things in check but then again you are interfering with natural selection and taking away the fit that survive. My green frog came from there and he will probably return in the fall so he can breed next year he's just a summer observation pet for my son and I He's 5 1/2 and I am introducing him to nature up close and personal.
Dwight

[Stefan-A]

True but if you are only taking one or 2 I doubt that's much of an impact.

But why take them at all, when there are better and safer options?

I am not advocating it the place I go to is probably over populated as it is and there would a natural die off to keep things in check but then again you are interfering with natural selection and taking away the fit that survive.

Every population is at its maximum size, overpopulation tends to occur after some dramatic change, as when a species spreads to a new area or a year when reproduction has been exceptionally successful. Or when the size of the population is considered big enough that it becomes a nuisance to us. It's not possible to interfere with natural selection, either. It occurs regardless. It's not like a fragile ecosystem, it's more like math.

I'm trying to keep this short, so I apologise for the lack of illustrating examples.

My green frog came from there and he will probably return in the fall so he can breed next year he's just a summer observation pet for my son and I He's 5 1/2 and I am introducing him to nature up close and personal.
Dwight

Of course it's your choice and he'll probably learn a lot, but I can't see anything good coming from keeping summer observation pets, as far as the animal itself is concerned.

Don't worry, I'm just thinking out loud.

[celticguitar]

But why take them at all, when there are better and safer options?




Of course it's your choice and he'll probably learn a lot, but I can't see anything good coming from keeping summer observation pets, as far as the animal itself is concerned.

Don't worry, I'm just thinking out loud.

Me too!
Other than becoming lazy and getting a good free feed on gut fed crickets, a safe place to hang, getting bigger stronger etc. but no real benifit for him. but my son gets to see feed see him up close without getting bit by deer ticks and get's to learn how to handle creatures gently and have greater respect for nature and not be scared of it. I have him set up on the deck in the back yard so he is still kind of outside in the elements. I am just rambling now and getting away from the topic of post Yes there are better things to feed your critters