Frogs?????

[k2l3d4]

So are you saying that you can feed green tree frogs to garters>?

[GradStudentLeper]

So are you saying that you can feed green tree frogs to garters>?

If you have a local population... yeah. In places whete H. cinerea and T. sirtalis are sympatric they do indeed feed on those frogs. They are not toxic, they are common and have healthy populations throughout their range.

That said, if you are up to it, it is better to grab a few adults and breed them in captivity than collect them from the wild en masse. Especially if you have a lot of snakes. You only want to collect a few. Alternatively you can collect tadpoles, and let them metamporphose in a ten gallon aquarium... get a couple hundred (and that wont scratch the population, even in urban environments) and you supply yourself for a year.

[tspuckler]

The parasites that frogs have can be dealt with by the snake's immune system (the ones in pinkies may or may not meet this criteria).
I am interested in knowing what sorts of parasites pinkies contain that can be transferred to snakes. Especially the lab mice that people tend to use to feed their reptiles. As far as immune systems dealing with parasites, isn't is possible that an Indonesian snake being fed fish from other countries may be getting parasites from those fish that it's completely unaccustomed to dealing with? Wouldn't the same be true when feeding an Indonesian snake American frogs?

Fish and frog parasites are not the same for all fish and frogs worldwide. For example the tapeworm Diphyllobothrium only appears in freshwater fish found mainly in temperate and subarctic regions. Are you saying Indonesian Garter Snakes are equipped to deal with this parasite?

That said, if you are up to it, it is better to grab a few adults and breed them in captivity than collect them from the wild en masse.
There are very few, if any, people who have successfully breed North American treefrogs. It is very difficult (and far more work than keeping snakes).

Snakes in the wild die from their parasite loads all the time.
Do you have any references that document this? I've never heard of a wild snake that died from parasite overload. The "all the time" line is intriguing. That would imply that there's plenty of proof to show that this happens. Are there any books/papers that indicate this?

[Mommy2many]

We have the American Grey Tree frogs in our small pool in our yard. This is the second year that they decided to make the pool their home and breeding ground. Raising them is easier said than done. Last year must have been a bad season for them, because out of the hundreds of tadpoles, we have 1 adult frog. We were able to get 7 or 8 others to frog stage but then lost them shortly afterward.

This year, we have witnessed many more frogs emerging from our pool. The season here has been cooler and rainer. Maybe that played a part? We didn't see any frogs leave the pool until October last year (the one we have now) and we still had tadpoles into November. We had to rescue what we could and bring them indoors because they were starting to freeze!

In the past week, we have seen probably 10 or so mature and venture off. I do not give them to my snakes, though they both live in the same territory. I actually did try the tadpoles (there are so many) but the snakes weren't interested anyways. After not seeing much of the frogs mature last season, I'm giving these guys a chance. I have other food to feed my babies, which they love.

[GradStudentLeper]

We have the American Grey Tree frogs in our small pool in our yard. This is the second year that they decided to make the pool their home and breeding ground. Raising them is easier said than done. Last year must have been a bad season for them, because out of the hundreds of tadpoles, we have 1 adult frog. We were able to get 7 or 8 others to frog stage but then lost them shortly afterward.

This year, we have witnessed many more frogs emerging from our pool. The season here has been cooler and rainer. Maybe that played a part? We didn't see any frogs leave the pool until October last year (the one we have now) and we still had tadpoles into November. We had to rescue what we could and bring them indoors because they were starting to freeze!

In the past week, we have seen probably 10 or so mature and venture off. I do not give them to my snakes, though they both live in the same territory. I actually did try the tadpoles (there are so many) but the snakes weren't interested anyways. After not seeing much of the frogs mature last season, I'm giving these guys a chance. I have other food to feed my babies, which they love.

In a backyard swimming pool they are resource limited (how much algea really grows in those?), in addition they have non-fish predators like dragonfly nymphs to deal with. Tadpoles are the... potato chips of aquatic systems. Their mortality rates are really high, we are talking about fractions of a percent survival rate.

If you want to maximize the number that survive, supplement their food and screen the pool to protect it from insect predators.

[Mommy2many]

We actually have started to feed them this year. There is some algae and we have also introduced the small trout my kids fished out of the stream. We have had a lot of rain and it is cooler, so I believe the algae is not as great as last summer.

They seemed to die off right at the frog stage.
What ever is going on is working for the frogs this year.

[tspuckler]

A staggering diversity of helminth parasites. A seach through the literature I just performed brings up 850 articles on parasite infections in mice.
Can you give me examples of specific articles where a snake acquired a parasite from a mouse? I understand that there are parasite infections in mice. What I asked was what sort of parasites pinkies have that have been proven to be transferred to snakes.

...and the snakes may or may not be able to respond to the ones that are opportunists...
This sounds like you really don't know if helminth parasites can be transferred to snakes via mice. Therefore it seems to me that you are taking your opinion and trying to pass it off as fact.

I am not talking about indonesian snakes now am I?
Maybe not, but I was. It's a simple question, can you answer it?

...what is pretty intellectually dishonest, even if it is a skill.
Trying to pass off your opinions as fact is "intellectually dishonest."

The other factor is how generalized the parasites host requirements are. Some are very very specific, others can infect just about anything.
So it sounds like your idea of raising frogs really doesn't have much value. If snakes can gets parasites from just about anything, why bother?

I would argue that it is more likely that people just have not tried.
Maybe, but for those who have, it's nearly impossible.

...it will be some work, and take a lot of experimentation, but it could be well worth it.
The seemingly casual suggestion you made about breeding your own frogs as a food source isn't all that realistic. If possible, it would take quite some time to do it, and in the meantime the snakes would die of starvation.

As a matter of fact, I do!
Your reference doesn't give any indication that the snakes DIED of parasites, just that they had them. This is yet another case of you trying to pass off your personal opinion as fact (aka being "intellectually dishonest").

[gregmonsta]

I am interested in knowing what sorts of parasites pinkies contain that can be transferred to snakes. Especially the lab mice that people tend to use to feed their reptiles.

So here's a good parasite link that was designed to educate rat keeper's, how to care for their pets.
Almost each and every species of parasite mentioned can survive in their new host the snake.

Rat & Mouse Gazette: Medical Corner: The Worms Crawl In, The Worms Crawl Out

Pinworms are especially a problem for people who feed live.