Brumation of wild garters

[ConcinusMan]

While I do agree one should by CB, I'm not going to pay $30 + shipping PER SNAKE to get myself a pair of concinnus this year, when I can find hundreds of them right here near my home. Also, It's a small world when it comes to breeders. To dang many snakes being bred are related. Other members have expressed interest in widening the gene pool for concinnus so I think I'll probably send a few their way. Also, this particular area has concinnus with colors, patterns, and genes that you just don't see in CB snakes. As far as pathogens in the offspring goes, the snakes were never exposed to anything other than their parents. Any pathogens present, if any, came from the environment where they were collected. That's the reason I would never release a snake to a different location or population.

I would have to drive a awfully long way to pick up a CB garter snake. I did get one shipped to me. Amy. Iowa albino T. Radix. There's a good argument against doing that too. What if she carried a nasty pathogen to which she is immune, but then escaped and infected local snakes? What if she crossbred with native snakes?

Everyone has made some very good points. Points which I have always considered. I don't just do this thoughtlessly. I do care.

[Stefan-A]

While I do agree one should by CB, I'm not going to pay $30 + shipping PER SNAKE to get myself a pair of concinnus this year, when I can find hundreds of them right here near my home.

Come on, 30 + shipping is practically nothing. Haven't gotten a single snake that cheap yet.

Also, It's a small world when it comes to breeders. To dang many snakes being bred are related. Other members have expressed interest in widening the gene pool for concinnus so I think I'll probably send a few their way.

Is there any reason for widening it, or is it just paranoia?

Also, this particular area has concinnus with colors, patterns, and genes that you just don't see in CB snakes.

From what you've shown us, much the same patterns and colours are already found in CB snakes. At least on this side of the pond.

I would have to drive a awfully long way to pick up a CB garter snake.

I have to leave the country, or have somebody else do it. I may complain about having to do it, but it's not an obstacle.

Everyone has made some very good points. Points which I have always considered. I don't just do this thoughtlessly. I do care.

Duly noted, but I hope you don't mind dissenting views on the issue.

[ConcinusMan]

Come on, 30 + shipping is practically nothing. Haven't gotten a single snake that cheap yet.

Is there any reason for widening it, or is it just paranoia?

From what you've shown us, much the same patterns and colours are already found in CB snakes. At least on this side of the pond.

I have to leave the country, or have somebody else do it. I may complain about having to do it, but it's not an obstacle.

Duly noted, but I hope you don't mind dissenting views on the issue.

I just don't have much resources.

The desire to widen the gene pool isn't just motivated by paranoia. Some people have expressed the desire to get different genes so they have more to "work with" and perhaps come up with new desirable traits through selective breeding.

I have yet to see CB snakes that look like some of my local concinnus found in the Portland/Vancouver area. White lips, black heads, very blue chins/throats, undersides, and lateral stripes. Some with burnt orange "frosting" (like they were spray painted) on the top last 1/3 of their bodies, some almost lacking the side spots. Perhaps I missed these photos of CB snakes?

I certainly do not mind dissenting views on the issue. I would be disappointed in all of you if there were none!

[charles parenteau]

Agree !