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    Forum Moderator aSnakeLovinBabe's Avatar
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    Re: T. s. tetrataenia or T. s. infernalis???

    Quote Originally Posted by count dewclaw View Post
    I have always wondered if T. s. tetrataenia was a pattern morph of T. s. infernalis that was local to the San Francisco area....Does anyone know what information was used to classify them as a sub-species separately from T. s. infernalis?

    yea.... this is exactly what I was gonna say.... is there anything that separates them, apart from pattern? I know that because they are their own population they are genetically separate, but could they have actually been a striped mutation of infernalis that just happened to sominate that area? I have a plains garter that is striped and smeared like that first infernalis pictured, a really unique snake... she is a sibling to Scott Felzer's "aztec" there were only 2 born in that clutch, to a wild mother....

    when you compare strictly visuals, my striped plains is to plains garters, what San-Frans are to infernalis!
    Mother of many snakes and a beautiful baby girl! I am also a polymer clay artist!


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    Forum Moderator Stefan-A's Avatar
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    Re: T. s. tetrataenia or T. s. infernalis???

    Quote Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe View Post
    yea.... this is exactly what I was gonna say.... is there anything that separates them, apart from pattern? I know that because they are their own population they are genetically separate, but could they have actually been a striped mutation of infernalis that just happened to sominate that area? I have a plains garter that is striped and smeared like that first infernalis pictured, a really unique snake... she is a sibling to Scott Felzer's "aztec" there were only 2 born in that clutch, to a wild mother....

    when you compare strictly visuals, my striped plains is to plains garters, what San-Frans are to infernalis!
    Molecular phylogeography of common garter snakes (Thamnophis sirtalis) in western North America: implications for regional historical forces

    Our molecular analyses suggest that T. s. tetrataenia (San Mateo Co.) is not genetically unique from other California populations. However, geographically nearby populations (Sonoma Co., Santa Cruz Co., and Contra Costa Co.) belong to a strongly supported clade that does not include San Mateo Co.
    So basically, it's yes and no. They are not very different overall from other T. sirtalis in the area, but whatever they're surrounded by, they're not closely related.

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