Loving snakes

[kibakiba]

I have heard of anthropomorphism, but I don't believe I'm placing human characteristics on an animal or anything else. From how I see it, and now that I've had a bit of rest... There has to be more than them eating, sleeping, pooping and breeding going on in their heads. If they had just the basic feelings in their mind the way most people seem to think, they technically wouldn't come to trust you. To them, you're a scary huge monster. The scary monster just happens to make food and water appear. The way my friends put it, my snakes wouldn't be able to connect my giving them food, to me being trust-able. Their brain is too simple for that. In other words, they think that snakes can not trust one of them even said that they act tame out of fear that I'll hurt them. I can't see my snakes coming, willingly, to my hand and seeming to seek out the attention they want... Out of fear. That doesn't make any sense at all. Sure, when they are hungry they come to my hand in what seems like hopes to find food appearing there, but when Mama is full, or one of the babies is full, they come up to me and rest their heads on my hands. Most people wold say its for warmth, just because they're cold. I keep my snakes warm, it's constantly around 70-80 degrees during the day and 60-65 during the night.

Part of me always wants to believe that they do "love" and that they "love" me. and part of me does believe their mind is simple, but at the same time I think people don't give snakes enough credit for their intelligence. Much like other animals. Some people think "oh, it's just a stupid animal" but you can see how intelligent animals are when you observe them often. I observe my snakes all the time, it's not just eating and sleeping going on. If it was, would every snake have the personalities that they have? I don't think so.
Maybe it's the part of me that never matured into an adult, much of my brain seems to have been stuck in the "child" stage where I'd believe in things like dragons and unicorns.
When Mama is looking at me while I'm stroking her head or rubbing her neck, I can just see that there's more going on than "where's the food, must have food"

When I'm upset, it's like my dog and my macaw sense that. My dog will sit with me, lick my arm and try to cuddle up to me. Willy, who is usually a very pissy bird and bites all the time, will let me hold him, he tries talking and doing his affectionate clicking sounds and he grooms me. Like them, Mama seems to at least sense that something isn't right. She acts differently when I'm not happy and when I am happy. I could be over examining it or imagining things, but I have written down in a notebook how I was feeling and how my snakes and my dog and macaw reacted to the different feelings. It doesn't seem like a coincidence to me. Though, I understand that it could just be a huge coincidence, it just doesn't seem likely in my mind.

[Stefan-A]

If they had just the basic feelings in their mind the way most people seem to think, they technically wouldn't come to trust you.

Sure they would. Nothing magical about positive reinforcement.

To them, you're a scary huge monster. The scary monster just happens to make food and water appear.

"Just" is hardly the word I'd use. Positive reinforcement plus avoiding appearing as a threat.

The way my friends put it, my snakes wouldn't be able to connect my giving them food, to me being trust-able. Their brain is too simple for that.

I don't find any reason to assume that.

, but when Mama is full, or one of the babies is full, they come up to me and rest their heads on my hands. Most people wold say its for warmth, just because they're cold. I keep my snakes warm, it's constantly around 70-80 degrees during the day and 60-65 during the night.

And when they've eaten, they prefer higher temperatures than usual, because it helps them digest the food. The temperature of your skin is about 33 C or 91 F, significantly higher than the ambient temperature.

Part of me always wants to believe that they do "love" and that they "love" me. and part of me does believe their mind is simple, but at the same time I think people don't give snakes enough credit for their intelligence. Much like other animals. Some people think "oh, it's just a stupid animal" but you can see how intelligent animals are when you observe them often.

But believing doesn't make things real and if you want to believe something, that pretty much proves that you recognize that it's not real. And people give themselves too much credit. Our behavior may be more complex, but everything we do ultimately just revolves around breeding. Everything we do is connected to passing along genes, whether it's eating, sleeping, pooping or keeping pets.

I observe my snakes all the time, it's not just eating and sleeping going on. If it was, would every snake have the personalities that they have? I don't think so.

Nature and nurture. Applies to snakes as well.

When Mama is looking at me while I'm stroking her head or rubbing her neck, I can just see that there's more going on than "where's the food, must have food"

But you do know that you're not actually seeing anything.

When I'm upset, it's like my dog and my macaw sense that. My dog will sit with me, lick my arm and try to cuddle up to me. Willy, who is usually a very pissy bird and bites all the time, will let me hold him, he tries talking and doing his affectionate clicking sounds and he grooms me.

Both are relatively intelligent, social animals. Much like us, they've benefited from being able to communicate with other flock members.

Like them, Mama seems to at least sense that something isn't right. She acts differently when I'm not happy and when I am happy. I could be over examining it or imagining things, but I have written down in a notebook how I was feeling and how my snakes and my dog and macaw reacted to the different feelings. It doesn't seem like a coincidence to me. Though, I understand that it could just be a huge coincidence, it just doesn't seem likely in my mind.

Your behavior presumably also depends on your mood.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Garter snakes are different from a lot of other snakes. we all know that. They are intriuging, curious, funny little things. There are many other snakes that are similar to garters in this seemingly human-loving behavior. They all have one thing in common. They are visually oriented! A diurnal snake with large eyes and decent eyesight is naturally more curious about us and will become more willing to interact with us once they come to trust us. Look at ball pythons, definitely not what I would call a visually oriented snake. You open the lid to a ball python's cage, and he may eventually peek out at you, but he is not going to dart of of the hide and over to your hands. Snakes learn to trust us simply because we do not eat them or harm them when feeding or handling them. It is simple positive reinforcement that even insects can become accustomed to. It is all trial and error. When baby garters are born, they are downright terrified of us. Depending on the species, they warm up to human interaction within a few weeks, to a few months. That first feeding, you have to be so careful not to scare them off of their food, but after the 5th, the 6th, etc, they will nip at your fingers and take food from your hands. There is no doubt that snakes have the ability to learn what is a threat, what is not a threat, and their opinion of what a threat is can change over the course of their lifetime. Combining the fact that my snakes do not percieve me to be a threat, and the fact that when interacting with me, I may or may not be a source of food at any given time, and in fact, I am their only source of food, the snakes are naturally obliged to take their chances with me! If you kept a snake in an enclosure, but never interacted with it, or directly fed it, such as dropping food in when it wasn't looking, etc, etc.... it would not trust you! Snakes do not naturally trust us, it is a learned behavior, but we should not fool ourselves into thinking it is anything more than that.

I can tell you that so far my flying tree snake takes the cake for interaction. If that snake catches a even a slight glimpse of me from across the room it makes every attempt to "watch" me. Why it is so hellbent on watching me, I am not sure, but it goes out of it's way and climbs higher into the branches to make sure it can see me. I would assume it's a survival strategy so that I can't sneak up on it and eat it. Up close, that snake actually turns and rotates it's head while looking at my hand, or my face, or whatever it's looking at and seems to be truly observing it's surroundings, like a monitor lizard does. It always comes right to me when I open the door, but if I try and get too comfortable, I get whacked every time! I like it!