New guy

[guidofatherof5]

Garters and ribbons are solitary by nature unless it's brumating or mating time. They don't really need company. It's up to you if you want to keep them in groups. They do just fine either way.

I can't speak for ribbon snakes but when it comes to T.radix and T.s. parietalis I would disagree with your "solitary by nature" statement.
I very rarely fine a radix or parietalis alone when I'm out herping.
2 or more is usually what I find under hide.
My large enclosure with multiple hides are a prime example of them grouping together.
I personally think they are more relaxed and calm when housed together.
Just my opinion.

[RedSidedSPR]

I personally think they are more relaxed and calm when housed together.
Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

I do too. I am going to buy another baby to put in with this onw for that reason. They feel more secure... not as jumpy as they are when they're alone in a big tank...

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I can't speak for ribbon snakes but when it comes to T.radix and T.s. parietalis I would disagree with your "solitary by nature" statement.
I very rarely fine a radix or parietalis alone when I'm out herping.
2 or more is usually what I find under hide.
My large enclosure with multiple hides are a prime example of them grouping together.
I personally think they are more relaxed and calm when housed together.
Just my opinion.

I agree entirely with your disagreement. I always find wild garters together... garters that have no reason to be together as they are not mating.

[ConcinusMan]

I agree entirely with your disagreement. I always find wild garters together... garters that have no reason to be together as they are not mating.

Of course I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that they are sharing the best basking, hunting, and hiding spots. I really don't think they come together for the company.

[guidofatherof5]

Of course I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that they are sharing the best basking, hunting, and hiding spots. I really don't think they come together for the company.

Eat, drink, poop, breed. Right Richard.

Oh ye of little faith.

[ConcinusMan]

Eat, drink, poop, breed. Right Richard.

Oh ye of little faith.

Oh C'mon Steve, don't be so quick to anthropomorphise. I think we can agree that there are similarities in both physiology, and behavior, between reptiles and birds. Birds flock together at a great advantage against predator attack. Did it not occur that the old adage "there is safety in numbers" might apply here? You said yourself that they seem calmer and not as nervous/ more "outgoing" in groups. And yet it never occurred to you that this might be because there is security against predators for the individual when there is a group formed?

I think it boils down to a feeling of safety and security, which as I mentioned before, can be achieved simply by providing more vegetation and cover for an individual instead of being all out in the open. The individual snake is safer against predator attack when it is either well hidden and secure, or if the individual is part of a group instead of being alone. A predator will focus on one snake. Particularly the slowest one in the group when they all decide it's time to flee.

Just saying that there are equally compelling arguments that the change in behavior is not due to them having "company" and that their gathering together could just as easily be a strategy against predator attack, therefore making them feel safer and more secure when they are in groups.

It could very well be that they do not necessarily "enjoy" each others company, but instead prefer the safety that comes with numbers.

When I'm out herping I see individual snakes on their own out foraging, or when I do find groups of them, it's simply because they are sharing a suitable hiding/basking place. I see no evidence that they seek out each others company outside of breeding / brumating season. They simply come together because a certain spot meets their mutual needs.

In that picture I posted above, it's no surprise that one snakes favorite hiding place is also favored by the others. I really don't think they are all in there just for the sake of being together and I do not believe they get "lonely" if kept singly. Just my opinion.

It depends on the snake. They are like people when it comes to this

And that's where the mistake lies. They are nothing like people so stop attributing human characteristics, motivation or behavior to snakes.

What motivates their behaviors is not necessarily the same things that motivate our behavior.

Actually, It's not my place to tell you to stop doing that. It actually helps for us to enjoy them more but it's not necessarily what is actually happening.

[Sonya610]

Oh C'mon Steve, don't be so quick to anthropomorphise. I think we can agree that there are similarities in both physiology, and behavior, between reptiles and birds. Birds flock together at a great advantage against predator attack. Did it not occur that the old adage "there is safety in numbers" might apply here? You said yourself that they seem calmer and not as nervous/ more "outgoing" in groups.

There is so much we do not know about other species of plants and animals.

I would be very curious to know if anyone has done a study on these wild garters that group together outside the den (like the ones Shannon saw, virtually all curled up together in pairs).

Are those pairings totally random? Do garters gravitate towards others and keep pairing with the same animals in the wild? Do they have a preference for related animals? I don't think observing captive animals all stuck together would be as reliable as observing garters in the wild.

Scientists often study things that are in no way close to nature and then make blanket statements about entire species. The famous "wolf pack" studies were based primarily on CAPTIVE animals randomly grouped together and then observed. Real packs are simply FAMILIES of wolves and react very differently, yet arrogant scientists studied groups of complete strangers forced to live together and formulated huge "fact based studies" on wolf behavior that was universally accepted as "scientific truth".

No doubt reptiles are even less understood.

[RedSidedSPR]

No doubt reptiles are even less understood.

No doubt