Puget Sound Garters & polymorphism

[mb90078]

You seem to imply integrading without using the word...

[ConcinusMan]

You seem to imply intergrading without using the word...

Yeah, but is it primary, secondary, or both? I know that the area where concinnus and pickeringi ranges overlap or blur (Lewis County) was completely under water for thousands of years up until about 10,000 yrs ago. This, and glaciation at Puget sound, could have isolated a previously connected and continuous population of t. sirtalis, allowing them to evolve separately for a while. When the waters (glacial runoff lakes) finally receeded, they were then rejoined creating intergrade zones are the result of secondary contact between populations that were previously geographically isolated. This secondary contact very well could have happened, (happening now) but geographic morph variation within each subspecies' range, and DNA sampling suggest that the two have been in contact all along, with only intermittent periods of isolation. I could be completely wrong though and only extensive DNA sampling and years of research can reveal whats really going on with these two. I do know I read somewhere that it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between the two subspecies (concinnus and pickeringi) by DNA because they are essentially identical on a genetic level and I have to tell you, based on my interaction with them, they are the same. Everything I've always loved about concinnus' is there in pickeringi too. The only thing different is their color and pattern, and even that is nearly the same in certain individuals.

[mb90078]

Yeah, but is it primary, secondary, or both? I know that the area where concinnus and pickeringi ranges overlap or blur (Lewis County) was completely under water for thousands of years up until about 10,000 yrs ago. This, and glaciation at Puget sound, could have isolated a previously connected and continuous population of t. sirtalis, allowing them to evolve separately for a while. When the waters (glacial runoff lakes) finally receeded, they were then rejoined creating intergrade zones are the result of secondary contact between populations that were previously geographically isolated. This secondary contact very well could have happened, (happening now) but geographic morph variation within each subspecies' range, and DNA sampling suggest that the two have been in contact all along, with only intermittent periods of isolation. I could be completely wrong though and only extensive DNA sampling and years of research can reveal whats really going on with these two. I do know I read somewhere that it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between the two subspecies (concinnus and pickeringi) by DNA because they are essentially identical on a genetic level and I have to tell you, based on my interaction with them, they are the same. Everything I've always loved about concinnus' is there in pickeringi too. The only thing different is their color and pattern, and even that is nearly the same in certain individuals.

Interesting analysis.