The "Hoser review" of the genus Thamnophis...

[thesnakeman]

Chris-UK, with one year's expertise with reptiles, your comments attacking me are treated with the weight they deserve.
I posted the details of the papers here not to seek your approval. If that had been my intent, I'd have done this BEFORE publishing the results of the audit, not after.
As noted, the papers have all been peer reviewed and due the quality of evidence supporting the taxonomy, the reviewers all agreed with my position.
I therefore posted the details of these papers on this forum as I expected people here to be interested in names they are likely to see in circulation in coming years, also to show which snakes are included in each group and as part of a bridge between the professional and amateur herpetologist, viz also a common division between taxonomist and keeper.
I skate between all communities and try to get all to work togeather, although clearly some posting here seem to take an adversial position to everything.
Now the (relevant) professional herpetologists will in the fullness of time either accept my taxonomy or reject it, and they are made aware of the relevant paper/s via the various database and RSS feeds they have access to, such as Zoological Record and the like.
Most are hidden behind so-called "paywalls" and are therefore inaccessible to most "plebs" and people on this forum, which is further reason why I thought I'd post details of the papers here.
Sorry to the noisy few who seem to be bent on trolling rather than much else.
Now here's some advice to all here.
I post here an image or two of one of the wonderful snakes we have here and I ask you to all look at this and then if you have any snakes in your posession to take one out of it's cage and spend a full five minutes handling it and admiring it's magnificent natural beauty.
All the best

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[-MARWOLAETH-]

Chris-UK, with one year's expertise with reptiles, your comments attacking me are treated with the weight they deserve.

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So you are dismissing his valid questions because he only has a years experience with reptiles?

[Stefan-A]

Chris-UK, with one year's expertise with reptiles, your comments attacking me are treated with the weight they deserve.

Non sequitur, ad hominem.

I posted the details of the papers here not to seek your approval. If that had been my intent, I'd have done this BEFORE publishing the results of the audit, not after.

Tough noogies. The second you posted here, you set yourself up for approval or disapproval. Your comments are going to be treated with the weight they deserve, considering that your expertise here is completely unproven.

As noted, the papers have all been peer reviewed and due the quality of evidence supporting the taxonomy, the reviewers all agreed with my position.

Not interested. Did you know that there are peer reviewed "creation science" journals these days?

I therefore posted the details of these papers on this forum as I expected people here to be interested in names they are likely to see in circulation in coming years,

Not going to happen.

also to show which snakes are included in each group and as part of a bridge between the professional and amateur herpetologist, viz also a common division between taxonomist and keeper.

Architect-fireman.

I skate between all communities and try to get all to work togeather,

How's that working for ya?

although clearly some posting here seem to take an adversial position to everything.

Most of all, stupidity.

Now the (relevant) professional herpetologists will in the fullness of time either accept my taxonomy or reject it,

They sure will.

Sorry to the noisy few who seem to be bent on trolling rather than much else.

Glass houses, etc.

Now here's some advice to all here.

Oh, rapture!

I post here an image or two of one of the wonderful snakes we have here and I ask you to all look at this and then if you have any snakes in your posession to take one out of it's cage and spend a full five minutes handling it and admiring it's magnificent natural beauty.

So in other words, you want us to grab a snake for absolutely no reason and fiddle about with it for no benefit at all to the snake.

[d_virginiana]

Now here's some advice to all here.
I post here an image or two of one of the wonderful snakes we have here and I ask you to all look at this and then if you have any snakes in your posession to take one out of it's cage and spend a full five minutes handling it and admiring it's magnificent natural beauty.
All the best

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Before he gets kicked off, I kind of want to point out to him that one of the 'one or two wonderful snakes' he has is actually a frog.

[thesnakeman]

"Before he gets kicked off, I kind of want to point out to him that one of the 'one or two wonderful snakes' he has is actually a frog".

On that note it may be worthwhile to lock this thread as I don't see it going anywhere.

All the best

[chris-uk]

"Before he gets kicked off, I kind of want to point out to him that one of the 'one or two wonderful snakes' he has is actually a frog".

On that note it may be worthwhile to lock this thread as I don't see it going anywhere.

All the best

And it had so much potential, if only you'd been willing to enter into a discussion and explain the "evidence" and respond in a robust way to the critical response you received. Instead the place this thread has gone to a place where the credibility of Raymond Hoser (Herpetologist and Taxonomist) has been further undermined by Mr Hoser himself.