Escapee, recaught with baggage

[Tim C.]

The petshop is the worst place for them to go - No matter how good the pet shop - the sale is the most important thing and follow up on whether these hybrids are being bred is going to be nil.
Chalking eventual outcomes to 'fate' is null and void here - this is your responsibility - future breedings are therefore not down to fate but simply down to your actions.

Your options, as already stated:

• Keep them yourself
• Find responsible homes for them. With people that won't breed further or risk polluting the captive genepool
• Euthanise them
• Find someone that has ophiophagus snakes and needs feeders

At any rate, the pet shop route will only encourage others to think that hybrids must be a viable option and start a chain of fallacy.

We've had others here produce unwanted hybrids before. Forum members here are your most likely option for finding responsible homes so start advertising them.

The last thing you may want to bear in mind that for the next litter or so there is a chance that some of the future offspring may also be 'polluted', so to speak.

Thanks for your input but as I stated keeping them is not really an option.
I believe a pet store would have a better chance of finding a good home than I would
I don't see where killing them is in their best interest, I would definitely release them where I found the mother before that happens. I had already bought a replacement snake and had I known she was gravid I may have just left her be, after all if she survived the winter than she adapted to the wild well.
It was their fate that brought them into the world and if it was against the laws of nature for the breeds to mix then it wouldn't have happened. Im sure its happened many times by wild snakes crawling up into vehicles in one part of the country then crawling out in another. How did morphs come to be if not by cross breeding. Ive seen breeders advertise mixbreeds. Why is it fine for them to produce them in their snakemills but not if happens completely naturally? As far as using them as feeders I'll withhold my comment except to say I dont think posting them in the classifieds on this site would be a good idea due that possibility. I do appreciate your time taken to reply to my post though. Have a nice day.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for your input but As I stated keeping them is not really an option.
I believe a pet store would have a better chance of finding a good home than I would
I don't see where killing them is in their best interest, I would definitely release them where I found the mother before that happens. I had already bought a replacement snake and had I known she was gravid I may have just left her be, after all if she survived the winter than she adapted to the wild well.
It was their fate that brought them into the world and if it was against the laws of nature for the breeds to mix then it wouldn't have happened. Im sure its happened many times by wild snakes crawling up into vehicles in one part of the country then crawling out in another. How did morphs come to be if not by cross breeding. Ive seen breeders advertise mixbreeds. Why is it fine for them to produce them in their snakemills but not if happens completely naturally? As far as using them as feeders I'll withhold my comment except to say I dont think posting them in the classifieds on this site would be a good idea due that possibility. I do appreciate your time taken to reply to my post though. Have a nice day.

I think you are wrong by thinking this forum is the wrong place to look for a good home. This is the perfect place to find responsible people who will give them a home. I don't think anyone here would take them from you and euthanize them. I just don't see it. I for one would give them a home and never allow them to breed. I feel the same way about life being precious. Hybrids created in nature are one thing and hybrids created in a captive situation is completely different.
Morphs are not a product of inter-breeding it is breeding within a specific species.
If I can help in this situation feel free to contact me.

[ProXimuS]

It was their fate that brought them into the world

It wasn't the snakes fate. It's "fate" depends on the owner once it's in captivity.

if it was against the laws of nature for the breeds to mix then it wouldn't have happened.

"Naturally" it shouldn't have happened because they (generally) shouldn't be ranging in the same area in "nature."

How did morphs come to be if not by cross breeding.

Morphs have nothing to do with cross breeding species.

Ive seen breeders advertise mixbreeds. Why is it fine for them to produce them in their snakemills but not if happens completely naturally?

And that is highly frowned upon. Doesn't make it right just because they do it.

I still think your best bet is to post an ad on the classified section. You asked what to do, and we gave you our best shots.

[gregmonsta]

Thanks for your input but as I stated keeping them is not really an option.

So find them suitable homes.

I believe a pet store would have a better chance of finding a good home than I would.

You're wrong, you are more able to explain the parentage/check the suitability of a new owner than 99% of pet shops out there.

I don't see where killing them is in their best interest

It's not in their best interest .... it is in the best interest of the hobby and keeping captive bloodlines pure.

I would definitely release them where I found the mother before that happens.

And that would be the most irresponsible thing you could do - potentially ruining your local snake population and affecting the ecosystem in the area. Not to mention it most probably being a criminal offence.

I had already bought a replacement snake and had I known she was gravid I may have just left her be, after all if she survived the winter than she adapted to the wild well.

Again .... see above point.

Im sure its happened many times by wild snakes crawling up into vehicles in one part of the country then crawling out in another.

It's possible .... but that doesn't mean you can justify what your saying considering you have been told what the viable options are.

How did morphs come to be if not by cross breeding.

Morphs are natural mutation and not a result of hybridisation.

Ive seen breeders advertise mixbreeds. Why is it fine for them to produce them in their snakemills but not if happens completely naturally?

Because they are catering to a specific market which, unfortunately for you, does not exist in the garter hobby.

As far as using them as feeders I'll withhold my comment except to say I dont think posting them in the classifieds on this site would be a good idea due that possibility.

You really haven't paid attention have you? We recommend advertising them here because they WILL find good homes here! We urge you to advertise them here to STOP any of the other options from happening. NONE of us would euthanise or feed these to anything else - these are YOUR options.

[Stefan-A]

I don't see where killing them is in their best interest,

There are other, greater interests to consider. When animal welfare and nature conservation are in conflict, nature conservation must be recognized as more important. Yes, this is an issue of nature conservation.

I would definitely release them where I found the mother before that happens.

Don't do it. That's the absolutely worst thing you could do.

It was their fate that brought them into the world and

Forget about fate, there's no fate but what we make for ourselves.

if it was against the laws of nature for the breeds to mix then it wouldn't have happened.

The laws of nature do not say how things should be. Also, we're not talking about breeds, we are talking about species.

Im sure its happened many times by wild snakes crawling up into vehicles

That is absolutely no excuse for doing it deliberately.

How did morphs come to be if not by cross breeding.

By random genetic mutations becoming visible through inbreeding, not cross breeding.

Ive seen breeders advertise mixbreeds.

And they set a piss-poor example, and they generally do not release the offspring.

Why is it fine for them to produce them in their snakemills but not if happens completely naturally?

1. It's not fine for them to produce hybrids and 2. it hasn't happened completely naturally.

As far as using them as feeders I'll withhold my comment except to say I dont think posting them in the classifieds on this site would be a good idea due that possibility.

And how do you figure that? Apart from me, nobody here would be prepared to use them as feeders. And note: I'm half a world away.

I do appreciate your time taken to reply to my post though. Have a nice day.

Listen to sound advice. You might not like what you hear, but don't do anything as stupid as releasing those offspring.

[Tim C.]

There are other, greater interests to consider. When animal welfare and nature conservation are in conflict, nature conservation must be recognized as more important. Yes, this is an issue of nature conservation.


Don't do it. That's the absolutely worst thing you could do.


The laws of nature do not say how things should be. Also, we're not talking about breeds, we are talking about species.


That is absolutely no excuse for doing it deliberately.


By random genetic mutations becoming visible through inbreeding, not cross breeding.


And they set a piss-poor example, and they generally do not release the offspring.


1. It's not fine for them to produce hybrids and 2. it hasn't happened completely naturally.


And how do you figure that? Apart from me, nobody here would be prepared to use them as feeders. And note: I'm half a world away.


Listen to sound advice. You might not like what you hear, but don't do anything as stupid as releasing those offspring.

I agree with most the things you posted but with some of the answers you gave I think you may have misinterpreted what the situation is. From your comments I get the feeling you think my statements are different than they were. You need to read all the posts and not just the last few. I do appreciate your input, thanks