Pics of my Puget Sound blues

[Cazador]

Once again ssssnakeluvr, my hat's off to you. You're tha man!

Kitkat, Roy,
It looks like we bought T. ordinoides . When I think I know something, it takes a good bit of evidence to persuade me otherwise, and I've been looking at a lot of indistinct (and probably some mis-labeled) pictures of T. ordinoides and T.s. pickeringii over the last few days. Today, I e-mailed Gary Nafis, and he wrote back with a key to certain snakes of the West & Northwest. It didn't include T.s. pickeringii, but it had other T. sirtalis subspecies. My blue snakes have 7-8 upper labials; 8 lower labials; their internasals are equal to or shorter than their prefrontals; and they have 17 scale rows... all characteristics of T. ordinoides. He has an awesome snake ID key with photos to help interpret the descriptions. Have a look (Key to California Gartersnakes).
Rick

[GarterGuy]

Once again ssssnakeluvr, my hat's off to you. You're tha man!

Kitkat, Roy,
It looks like we bought T. ordinoides . When I think I know something, it takes a good bit of evidence to persuade me otherwise, and I've been looking at a lot of indistinct (and probably some mis-labeled) pictures of T. ordinoides and T.s. pickeringii over the last few days. Today, I e-mailed Gary Nafis, and he wrote back with a key to certain snakes of the West & Northwest. It didn't include T.s. pickeringii, but it had other T. sirtalis subspecies. My blue snakes have 7-8 upper labials; 8 lower labials; their internasals are equal to or shorter than their prefrontals; and they have 17 scale rows... all characteristics of T. ordinoides. He has an awesome snake ID key with photos to help interpret the descriptions. Have a look (Key to California Gartersnakes).
Rick

Very cool site.....see this is what we need for all of them. Of course it'd also probably help to have a little bit on snake anatomy. I'm sure there are those who have no idea what internasals are or that blush when you ask them about labials . I'm seriously thinking about getting something like this in gear after the holidays. It's the slow time of year at the lab, so I'll have plenty of time for research. I'll see my publisher buddy this weekend at the herp club meeting, so I'll see what he has to say.

[CrazyHedgehog]

Have a look (Key to California Gartersnakes).
Rick

Cazador, this is an amazing site.. thankyou,

I have struggled with the counting this that and what? this really does show clearly what you are supposed to be looking at..

I have 23 thamnophis of various species.. some a little suspect...so I might be having a closer inspection with the help of this site...

MODS....can we have this link highlighted somewhere as a main or recomended resource?

[KITKAT]

The following is my own private opinion and not a reflection of the site:

The sad part of the Ohio regs is that they don't know what they are doing, and have destroyed what they set out to protect.

T radix had a subspecies that appeared in an isolated area of Ohio... a protected parkland in the western part of the state.

There are no T radix in Indiana, so this insular population was a remnant of the prairie from hundreds of years ago, when it actually extended from westward, into Ohio.

DNR, in their infinite wisdom, required pit tagging of all T radix found in the area... and they tagged even very small specimens. As a probable result, there are very few now found in the park, where there were once plentiful findings.

And in yet another wise move... they imported the western T radix and released it in the area... thus destroying the insular genetics of the subspecies.

!!!

Meanwhile, all herpetologists who live in Ohio are banned from owning T radix.