Freeze, the Checkered Garter Update

[chris-uk]

.... I immediately picked up the snake and unthawed all his vital organs (not all of him was frozen but his heart, esophagus, stomach, and intestines were) by running my hands up and down him. Once he was unthawed, I massaged his heart, while keeping him close to me......

I'm glad that he revived, but I think you'll find that he wasn't actually frozen. As others have pointed out, if his organs had frozen he wouldn't be slithering now. There's a handful of animals that can survive freezing, but as a rule, freezing causes massive cell damage and turns internal organs to mush.
Can you also give me some pointers as to how to find the heart to perform CPR on a garter if I need to? I'd be stuffed if I had to try to find the heart and massage one of mine back to life.


Just to digress...
Stefan - when I was in Christmas over New Year nearly 20 years ago, my friend told me that you get cases every year of people getting drunk, falling asleep on the way home without a hat on, and their brains freezing. Apparently the ones that they manage to revive are often vegetables. Is that an urban legend in Finland, or does it happen?

[Stefan-A]

Just to digress...
Stefan - when I was in Christmas over New Year nearly 20 years ago, my friend told me that you get cases every year of people getting drunk, falling asleep on the way home without a hat on, and their brains freezing. Apparently the ones that they manage to revive are often vegetables. Is that an urban legend in Finland, or does it happen?

Well, there have been instances of people either lying down or sitting down in one of our many comfortable looking snow piles on their way home from the bar and subsequently passing out. Not sure about the injuries they get, and I doubt the hat matters much. But it's pretty much true, these things do happen.

Came across one candidate a few years ago on my way to the grocery store one evening. He hadn't passed out yet, so I asked him whether he needed help getting home, which he didn't, since apparently a friend was coming to pick him up. He wasn't there anymore when I came back 15 minutes later, so I suppose he made it. I know one other person who passed out on his way home. He was saved in time, as well. So yeah, it happens.

[Greg'sGarters]

This is an update on Freeze's status. He is currently doing MUCH better. He has not showed any signs of neurological damage. He is flicking his tongue at a normal speed. However, he is still very lethargic. He has showed more interest in moving and his reaction time has improved. I will continue to keep you all updated.

[Greg'sGarters]

For future reference, don't warm the snakes up too quickly when that happens. Let them gradually warm to room temperature and then place them in their enclosures. From what I have always been told, warming them up too fast will cause damage. Keep an eye out for seizures. This happened to me recently.

And on a side note, it would be impossible for the snake to live had it been frozen. Frozen organs would no longer have worked. He was not frozen, just cold.

I felt it, it was really stiff. Like he had just swallowed a block of wood, if he wasn't frozen, I don't know what it was. I knew not to warm him up too quickly, that's why I used my hands as opposed to breathing on him or putting him in a warm cage. It's like when you are working out in the snow, and you come in and run hot water on your hands it is EXTREMELY uncomfortable. I warmed him up over about 2 minutes.

Yes I was just about to say what Neil said... there is no way the snake was actually froze. He would be dead. I received a snake in the same condition once. An albino florida banded water snake. The seller shipped the snake with a hand warmer and without even getting the OK or a temp check first. Needless to say I received a lifeless snake cicle. as I was taking pics of the "dead" snake he revived. He ended up developing respiratory issues and perished. The seller said he was going to send me a new one and never did come through.

Is it possible that the cold might have kept him alive? I know that when someone gets a finger cut off, you are supposed to keep it on ice until you can get to a hospital.

It's a shame you didn't film it.

I wish I had too. At the time though, I was more worried about getting the snake back alive than to filming the whole thing, with my luck he would have died in the time I was filming it.

Great story but forgive me for asking this..... What does police training have to do with it? How has "all of your police training" helped you revive your snake over good solid common sense? I'm glad he made it for you. Shipping can be tough at times. Best of luck with him. Mike Panichi

I had taken a few courses on emergency care. When you dial 911, no matter who you need, the police are always first on the scene. You learn a little bit of emergency care, just in case you are first on a scene and you need to prevent them from dying until the EMT/Paramedics get to the sceme.

I'm glad that he revived, but I think you'll find that he wasn't actually frozen. As others have pointed out, if his organs had frozen he wouldn't be slithering now. There's a handful of animals that can survive freezing, but as a rule, freezing causes massive cell damage and turns internal organs to mush.
Can you also give me some pointers as to how to find the heart to perform CPR on a garter if I need to? I'd be stuffed if I had to try to find the heart and massage one of mine back to life.


Just to digress...
Stefan - when I was in Christmas over New Year nearly 20 years ago, my friend told me that you get cases every year of people getting drunk, falling asleep on the way home without a hat on, and their brains freezing. Apparently the ones that they manage to revive are often vegetables. Is that an urban legend in Finland, or does it happen?

If he wasn't frozen, what were the SOLID chunks along his body? They felt like ice. Plus how about if he hadn't been frozen long enough to destroy the tissue? Honestly It is about 1/5-1/4 the length down the snake. I wasn't sure of the heart location either, so I took the brightest light I had, and shined it through him (he is albino, I could see through him) and located the heart (it is longer than a human heart).

[thamneil]

I felt it, it was really stiff. Like he had just swallowed a block of wood, if he wasn't frozen, I don't know what it was. I knew not to warm him up too quickly, that's why I used my hands as opposed to breathing on him or putting him in a warm cage. It's like when you are working out in the snow, and you come in and run hot water on your hands it is EXTREMELY uncomfortable. I warmed him up over about 2 minutes.



Is it possible that the cold might have kept him alive? I know that when someone gets a finger cut off, you are supposed to keep it on ice until you can get to a hospital.



I wish I had too. At the time though, I was more worried about getting the snake back alive than to filming the whole thing, with my luck he would have died in the time I was filming it.



I had taken a few courses on emergency care. When you dial 911, no matter who you need, the police are always first on the scene. You learn a little bit of emergency care, just in case you are first on a scene and you need to prevent them from dying until the EMT/Paramedics get to the sceme.



If he wasn't frozen, what were the SOLID chunks along his body? They felt like ice. Plus how about if he hadn't been frozen long enough to destroy the tissue? Honestly It is about 1/5-1/4 the length down the snake. I wasn't sure of the heart location either, so I took the brightest light I had, and shined it through him (he is albino, I could see through him) and located the heart (it is longer than a human heart).

Freezing equals ice and ice kills tissue instantly. There is not such thing as not frozen long enough. A frozen snake is a dead snake. Warming him over two minutes is ridiculously fast. The snake needs to come to room temperature before getting any warmer.

Whatever police training you received would have been more or less useless in this situation. The physiology of a reptile is entirely different than that of a person. The best thing you could have done in this situation is just leave the animal somewhere quiet and hope that it pulls through.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I felt it, it was really stiff. Like he had just swallowed a block of wood, if he wasn't frozen, I don't know what it was. I knew not to warm him up too quickly, that's why I used my hands as opposed to breathing on him or putting him in a warm cage. It's like when you are working out in the snow, and you come in and run hot water on your hands it is EXTREMELY uncomfortable. I warmed him up over about 2 minutes.

Greg.... your snake was not frozen... plain and simple. Next time, just leave it to warm up in room temperature air. Whether or not you've caused damage remains to be seen.

Is it possible that the cold might have kept him alive? I know that when someone gets a finger cut off, you are supposed to keep it on ice until you can get to a hospital.

That is to stop decomposition from occurring so that there are more hopes of reconnecting the tissue and getting it to stay healthy. If a person dies, they keep the body very cold. Does that keep them, or bring them back to life? of course not. If a person is extremely ill and on the verge of death, cooling them down to almost freezing would do nothing but kill them.. the last thing it would do is keep them alive. The same can be said for a reptile or any other creature... cooling is done to stop decomposition by slowing/halting the growth of bacteria. Not to keep things alive.

I wish I had too. At the time though, I was more worried about getting the snake back alive than to filming the whole thing, with my luck he would have died in the time I was filming it.

Don't take that comment too seriously. lol.

I had taken a few courses on emergency care. When you dial 911, no matter who you need, the police are always first on the scene. You learn a little bit of emergency care, just in case you are first on a scene and you need to prevent them from dying until the EMT/Paramedics get to the sceme.

How much police training do you really get at 15? Where I live we received these same courses as a part of regular school. It doesn't apply to reptiles, it applies to humans. If you had just laid him on your counter, he would have revived on his own.

If he wasn't frozen, what were the SOLID chunks along his body? They felt like ice. Plus how about if he hadn't been frozen long enough to destroy the tissue? Honestly It is about 1/5-1/4 the length down the snake. I wasn't sure of the heart location either, so I took the brightest light I had, and shined it through him (he is albino, I could see through him) and located the heart (it is longer than a human heart).

Your imagination running wild, perhaps? It certainly wasn't ice you were feeling. Please tell me, how would the internal organs freeze FIRST before his extremities of skin, tail and that sort of thing? We don't doubt that you located his heart. But you didn't locate a frozen heart. A reptile's heart beats slower and slower the cooler they get. If they get cold enough. It can seem as though it has completely stopped. Whether the animal is frozen for 3 seconds of an hour, it doesn't matter. The irreversible damage is caused the exact moment the water forms into ice crystals. Water expands in volume when it freezes. To see what I mean fill a jug COMPLETELY with water until there is no air left. Freeze it. The jug will be either really distended or may even crack open because the ice expands it so much. This same thing happens on a tiny basis inside of cells. The water turns to ice, explands and ruptures their cell membranes. This is why frozen specimens cannot really have a necropsy performed that would give any sort of real indication as to why it died. The moment tissue is frozen, it is damaged.