Garters do produce venom

[chris-uk]

Could be e-coli, salmonella, mrsa....a number of things. Ever get bit by a cat? As in a deep puncture wound by a feline? Sheesh those bites are horrid and can even be fatal (as in several days in the ICU). Deep puncture cat bites are not something to take lightly.

I ain't no expert but I doubt if it is venom, I suspect it is bacteria. I also suspect if Garters had venom you would have come across it before. My flame female bites me frequently (and no I do not wait 2 minutes before getting her to stop biting me) and often I have thought "No salmonella poisoning please".

Take a Benadryl or 3 immediately and put your finger in ice water. If the swelling/infection spreads might wanna see a doc.

I've been bitten by a cat a few times, some nice deep punctures. Usually I just slather the bite in antiseptic.

The swelling and stiffness in my finger is definitely not caused by a bacterial infection, bacteria doesn't do that in 10 minutes. Garters do produce venom, it's pretty well researched now, the debate I'm having with myself is how much of what I'm seeing is a direct effect of the venom and how much is an allergic reaction to the venom (or other substances) in the saliva.

I've given the bite a liberal slithering in antibiotic cream, and taken some antihistamines. If it gets worse I'll see about getting it checked - I can't imagine the conversation with my GP trying to explain it's a snake bite.

And if I get bitten by one of my snakes I think it's best to let the snake disengage themselves. Trying to remove them can result in injury, possibly me hurting their jaw and possibly dislodging a tooth which then stays embedded in the wound. If I get b8tten it's my fault, which means I suffer any pain not the biter.

[Sonya610]

I've been bitten by a cat a few times, some nice deep punctures. Usually I just slather the bite in antiseptic.

The swelling and stiffness in my finger is definitely not caused by a bacterial infection, bacteria doesn't do that in 10 minutes.

I have no idea if Garters produce venom but I can tell you swelling is an allergic reaction by your immune system that senses a danger.

You don't get swelling the first time your immune system encounters a foreign body, swelling is an auto-immune response to a perceived or known biological threat. The second time (or the 10th time) things can get dramatic.

I hope your finger is doing better. I would suspect e-coli or salmonella before I thought "garter venom".

The sudden swelling means your immune system has come across this before and is freaking out in response.

[chris-uk]

I would suspect e-coli or salmonella before I thought "garter venom".

What makes you think a bacterial infection is more likely than venom? I've been clear that the swelling came up within 10 minutes, if you know something about the microbiology of e-Coli or salmonella that can explain an instant swelling you have some more up to date information than me (it's been almost 15 years since I worked as an information officer for a food research lab and e-coli 0157 was discovered in meat products). The only microbiological cause that I can think of that may be able to explain the symptoms would be botulinum toxin, and I find the possibility that a garter snake is harbouring that in their mouth rather improbable.

So based on the knowledge that garter snakes do secrete venom in their saliva (thanks for the links Steve) I wanted to discuss whether the symptoms I'm seeing around my bite are a primary effect of the venomous compounds in the saliva or an immune response to the any of the proteins in the saliva. There is little written about garter bites, so I can see some value in sharing my experience and trying to fish out other keepers past experience of bites that have had similar symptoms.

I'm edging away from a histamine-mediated response, on the basis that:
I take antihistamines every day for hayfever and dust allergies and took a top up dose after the bite;
There is no redness around the edge of the bite marks. In my experience an allergic response to a bite (admittedly I'm basing this on insect bites) has a lot of red inflammation around the site.
The swollen finger was not warm to the touch or red. So the swelling was caused by fluid retention rather than increased blood flow.

To update on the state of my finger after 12 hours... I can bend it further than I could last night, but it's still swollen and I can't bend it all the way. There is some darkening under the skin on the side of the finger with the worst bite marks, but this could be a natural result of the swelling. The finger is itchy, this isn't a surprise as it's the only symptom I was actually expecting from the bite.