Without further ado... Achromatic!

[Jeff B]

On the one hand I agree with Joe in the technical sense that this is actually a true axanthic by purist definition, clearly has the yellow pigments removed. As Joe pointed out is very clearly demonstrated in the photo with normal siblings. This is the first garter with a recessive gene that has been demonstrated to only remove yellow, without altering the melanins or other pigments and is truly deserving of the definition/name axanthic.
On the other hand if Mark wants to call it achromatic that is his choice I guess.
Personally, for radix I would rather see this gene called axanthic and what we now call axanthics called blue axanthic (though I have been calling them that for years anyway) and what we call anery be called black axanthic (sorry Joe not ready to call them melanistic because they aren't solid patternless black).
The ball pythons have a black axanthic and is similar.
Just my two cents but to each there own.
BTW- awesome snakes Mark and Dan, congratulations on proving them out. They may be found from different location than Steves, but they look pretty much the same to me. I would guess they would be compatible too. Great work. Personally I would be interested in crossing with the blue axanthic and the black axanthic, especially the black axanthic to see if compatible which I doubt they would be but the combo might be neat anyway. Best of luck with them.

[Tommytradix]

On the one hand I agree with Joe in the technical sense that this is actually a true axanthic by purist definition, clearly has the yellow pigments removed. As Joe pointed out is very clearly demonstrated in the photo with normal siblings. This is the first garter with a recessive gene that has been demonstrated to only remove yellow, without altering the melanins or other pigments and is truly deserving of the definition/name axanthic.
On the other hand if Mark wants to call it achromatic that is his choice I guess.
Personally, for radix I would rather see this gene called axanthic and what we now call axanthics called blue axanthic (though I have been calling them that for years anyway) and what we call anery be called black axanthic (sorry Joe not ready to call them melanistic because they aren't solid patternless black).
The ball pythons have a black axanthic and is similar.
Just my two cents but to each there own.
BTW- awesome snakes Mark and Dan, congratulations on proving them out. They may be found from different location than Steves, but they look pretty much the same to me. I would guess they would be compatible too. Great work. Personally I would be interested in crossing with the blue axanthic and the black axanthic, especially the black axanthic to see if compatible which I doubt they would be but the combo might be neat anyway. Best of luck with them.

I agree and it was already crossed with an albino I should produce a litter from them next summer.

[Dan72]

Jeff crossing them into things and hopefully getting something new to show up is something I'm very interested in. Tommy should beat everyone to that with his hets, which is cool, because I'm all for new discovery. I was thinking the other day after a conversation Tommy and I had, we were discussing maybe blizzards or/and snows coming out of these. My thought was this, in BP's it USED to be there was but one way to create a blue eyed leucy. But then there was another, then another, and another. If we, and by we I mean whoever gets there, if we discover another way to get to snow then on to blizzard. If you took the old snow and paired it with the new snows, if the litter are snows then the two ways are compatible if no snows then they would be dbl hets? And in regards to pairing with the blue axanthic if you get a litter of normals then dbl het and not compatible. But if they are you would get a litter with both types present? And what if one were to over ride the other, or would that not be possible?

[Dan72]

Jeff, also I know that figuring out more of how the axanthic gene works was something you were into, you produced what you thought were two types in a litter a few seasons ago. Are you over it? It seems you really cleaned house today listing stuff, are you going all in, doubling down on Golden easterns? I know that either because of time or space, or in most cases both, it's hard to work with EVERYTHING. But between Scott being done it seems, and you listing most everything I've known you to work with since being on the forum, I feel like my garter world has been turned on its head. By the way you listing your poster girl at 600, I might have to check what you get for giving plasma these days and how many centers for plasma donation are within driving distance, because that is one snake I'd give blood for

[Jeff B]

Jeff, also I know that figuring out more of how the axanthic gene works was something you were into, you produced what you thought were two types in a litter a few seasons ago. Are you over it? It seems you really cleaned house today listing stuff, are you going all in, doubling down on Golden easterns? I know that either because of time or space, or in most cases both, it's hard to work with EVERYTHING. But between Scott being done it seems, and you listing most everything I've known you to work with since being on the forum, I feel like my garter world has been turned on its head. By the way you listing your poster girl at 600, I might have to check what you get for giving plasma these days and how many centers for plasma donation are within driving distance, because that is one snake I'd give blood for

Dan, first of all I am not getting out of garters just because I put a few of my adults up for sale. Realize what I put up for sale yesterday is a tiny fraction of my collection and all those awesome looking snakes I have been breeding for a couple years and have been growing up their offspring, some of which are even better and you have yet to even see pictures of them. I have to do this every year and thin out a bit otherwise I would have 1000 snakes in my house and no where to walk , lol. I still have a blizzard radix and what i believe is the homozygous for blue axanthic female and a snow(black axanthic and iowa albino combo). Yes I plan to continue work with the blue axanthic and the black axanthic.
Relax I am not going anywhere, but yes you should give plasma LOL.

[Dan72]

Ssshhwoooooo...... good to hear Jeff, I can only take so much shock to my garter system at one time. So now my head will just spin with all the thoughts of the beautiful snakes your sitting on and what they may breed in the future. I am checking out plasma centers in my area.

[Zdravko092368]

Realize what I put up for sale yesterday is a tiny fraction of my collection and all those awesome looking snakes I have been breeding for a couple years and have been growing up their offspring, some of which are even better and you have yet to even see pictures of them.

I would love to see photos of some of that huge collection of yours... so would everyone else i'm sure.

[Jeff B]

I would love to see photos of some of that huge collection of yours... so would everyone else i'm sure.

It's not that huge, though my wife would beg to differ, lol. I do have some yearlings and erythristic het golden that are looking pretty good that I need to take some pics and post up.

[BUSHSNAKE]

On the one hand I agree with Joe in the technical sense that this is actually a true axanthic by purist definition, clearly has the yellow pigments removed. As Joe pointed out is very clearly demonstrated in the photo with normal siblings. This is the first garter with a recessive gene that has been demonstrated to only remove yellow, without altering the melanins or other pigments and is truly deserving of the definition/name axanthic.
On the other hand if Mark wants to call it achromatic that is his choice I guess.
Personally, for radix I would rather see this gene called axanthic and what we now call axanthics called blue axanthic (though I have been calling them that for years anyway) and what we call anery be called black axanthic (sorry Joe not ready to call them melanistic because they aren't solid patternless black).
The ball pythons have a black axanthic and is similar.
Just my two cents but to each there own.
BTW- awesome snakes Mark and Dan, congratulations on proving them out. They may be found from different location than Steves, but they look pretty much the same to me. I would guess they would be compatible too. Great work. Personally I would be interested in crossing with the blue axanthic and the black axanthic, especially the black axanthic to see if compatible which I doubt they would be but the combo might be neat anyway. Best of luck with them.

your almost there Jeff lol one day youll realize that a melanistic doesn't have to be patternless black, don't you remember the melanistic eastern that i had that had a pattern that looked just like the "anerys",it was from the ohio population I might add...I posted a picture of it on here so everyone can see melanistics can have pattern.

[Tommytradix]

your almost there Jeff lol one day youll realize that a melanistic doesn't have to be patternless black, don't you remember the melanistic eastern that i had that had a pattern that looked just like the "anerys",it was from the ohio population I might add...I posted a picture of it on here so everyone can see melanistics can have pattern.

my melanistic easterns show a pattern when they are in shed