Minnows

[Stefan-A]

I can report no problems from feeding adult snakes live rosy reds/goldfish when scented pinkies weren't accepted.
No stunted growth, no jerky movements, and no abnormalities in litters.

Well, consider yourself lucky. It is still a well-known risk.

As far as your personal experiences go, you need a lot more samples to be able to say anything regarding the correlation between the particular diet and mortality rate. Especially long-term effects. Thiaminase, on the other hand, is well known.

[Zephyr]

Well, consider yourself lucky. It is still a well-known risk.

As far as your personal experiences go, you need a lot more samples to be able to say anything regarding the correlation between the particular diet and mortality rate. Especially long-term effects. Thiaminase, on the other hand, is well known.

We have one video account of a snake experiencing a "thiaminase seizure."
We also have about 20x more written accounts of snakes, fed on sans live fish diets, dying for no apparent reason.
Also, I have yet to see one nutritional analysis of rosy reds/goldfish proving their "high" thiaminase levels.

[Stefan-A]

We have one video account of a snake experiencing a "thiaminase seizure."

Thiaminase is not the sole cause of neurological disorders.

We also have about 20x more written accounts of snakes, fed on sans live fish diets, dying for no apparent reason.

Equally meaningless.

Also, I have yet to see one nutritional analysis of rosy reds/goldfish proving their "high" thiaminase levels.

Have you bothered trying to look it up? I mean, for example the list that has been posted here a number of times with fish containing and not containing thiaminase is based on tests that have actually been conducted. Until someone tests the fish species again and actually proves that they don't contain thiaminase in significant quantities, there's really no reason to assume that the earlier tests gave false results.

[infernalis]

My feelings have been that if successful garter keepers/breeders say "don't do it" I won't.

It's hard to argue with success, and keeping a small number snakes alive for a year or two is not exactly "success"

Some of the more respected members of this forum have specimens that are several generations down from the original parents they acquired many years ago, follow their lead..........

[jitami]

Some of the more respected members of this forum have specimens that are several generations down from the original parents they acquired many years ago, follow their lead..........

When I first got Sly in 2002, the general consensus was to feed rosy red minnows aka tuffies because they were considered safe at the time. Now we know better, but I would guess that most(at least US) garter keepers have used minnows as a primary food source at one point or another. I'm not arguing their safety,or lack thereof, as a primary food source now, but I don't think the occasional minnow(or goldfish for that matter) is going to do any harm. Of course, I do not have the experience to back that up and would love to hear from those who do

I'm curious how long people have been feeding frozen fish fillets? This seems like a relatively new occurrence that most people have not heard of before coming to this forum. I'm not saying it's bad... I'm assuming we really don't know what kind of nutrition is truly optimal for a garter or how to get that nutrition into them. We're all just doing the best we can with the information we have.

[ssssnakeluvr]

look in the articles page....link to a study for mink on thiaminase containing fish.... I think it's worse for growing snakes as opposed to adults. I fed goldfish for years to adults before getting a computer and learning more about it, and didn't notice anything...but have seen serioius isues with young ones growing fast...

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I'm curious how long people have been feeding frozen fish fillets? This seems like a relatively new occurrence that most people have not heard of before coming to this forum. I'm not saying it's bad... I'm assuming we really don't know what kind of nutrition is truly optimal for a garter or how to get that nutrition into them. We're all just doing the best we can with the information we have.

A vitamin supplement, an effort on our parts to find filets that still have bones and skin, and a diet that varies to some degree and includes rodents is a safe bet

[Stefan-A]

I'm curious how long people have been feeding frozen fish fillets? This seems like a relatively new occurrence that most people have not heard of before coming to this forum. I'm not saying it's bad... I'm assuming we really don't know what kind of nutrition is truly optimal for a garter or how to get that nutrition into them. We're all just doing the best we can with the information we have.

Let's put it this way: It's easier to add calcium, than to subtract thiaminase.

[jitami]

Let's put it this way: It's easier to add calcium, than to subtract thiaminase.

Good point... as usual

Ok, I'm on a mission to find feeder guppies... as I really do love watching the snakes fish for their food and live fish is the one food they all seem to go nuts for...