Garter vs. Corn

[Stefan-A]

I'm definitely a biased when it comes to corn snakes.

It's not because I have anything (not much anyway, just a few minor things I already mentioned) against the snake, but because of its status around here. People churn out corns like there's no tomorrow and if a beginner turns up somewhere, that's the only species they've ever heard about and it's the only one anybody ever recommends, as if there weren't other species that are as user friendly as corns. Whether or not there are, is not even interesting; Corns are the only snakes that are consistently available and therefore there's no point in even considering anything else. Unless you're already looking for something specific, in which case you go to Germany.

I know I'm not the only one around here (i.e. Finland) who's getting sick of corns. Some of the members on a local forum even went as far as to bleep the name "corn snake" whenever they had to use it. I didn't really understand that negative attitude then, but I think I'm starting to.

But this is just a little local phenomenon.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I'm definitely a biased when it comes to corn snakes.

It's not because I have anything (not much anyway, just a few minor things I already mentioned) against the snake, but because of its status around here. People churn out corns like there's no tomorrow and if a beginner turns up somewhere, that's the only species they've ever heard about and it's the only one anybody ever recommends, as if there weren't other species that are as user friendly as corns. Whether or not there are, is not even interesting; Corns are the only snakes that are consistently available and therefore there's no point in even considering anything else.

I know I'm not the only one around here who's getting sick of corns. Some of the members on a local forum even went as far as to bleep the name "corn snake" whenever they had to use it. I didn't really understand that negative attitude then, but I think I'm starting to.

But this is just a little local phenomenon.

Stefan, I to an extent, feel this way, but for me, it's not anger towards the snakes, rather, towards the people that mass breed them the way they do. I can't possibly take a stance such as "i hate cornsnakes" because it's not the snake's fault they are so darned easy to breed and care for. I do understand where you are coming from and just how fristrating it is. I get pretty ticked walking past table after table of tiny deli cups stacked to the ceiling with baby corns, ball pythons, and BCI's. Even if they are the most common, I love cornsnakes for what they are.. a hardy, pretty snake that is easy to care for and generally does not bite the hand that feeds. Having said that, I am highly an advocate of NORMAL corns, which I beleive to be the most beautiful of all, breeders can have their albino candy cane striped motley caramel anery snowflake blizzard chocolate swirl flavored corns.... show me the okeetee's and the miami's! Don't get me wrong.. the genetics are fascinating and WELL worth studying and breeding out, but they are not for me. I am happy with my okeetee's and my anery

I do recognize that there are other snakes that are just as easy as corns... but since corns are readily available... they take the cake. There are a lot of rat snakes that are easy to keep, and lots of others... but they are just not as readily available. Cali kings are right there with corns, but the thing with them is... they often decide that your hand is dinner and I have pried many a king snake off my hand... and many people simply take that the wrong way... that the snake is mean. The fact is that kingsnakes often think with their tummies first

And by writing all this, I am not putting garter snakes down in any way, I mean hell, I specialize heavily in them and love them more than any other snake times infinity. BUT... I simply do not feel that they make the best choice for a starter snake. They are a decent one, but seeing as they are so demanding food wise, and their young are so small and fragile (not to mention the size of their litters and the fact that they can surprise unknowing owners with a litter of babies before they have any knowledge and any time to prepare), and the fact that they are so energetic just makes them less than the optimal choice for the first snake. Do I think garter snakes are the best snakes to own? Yes. Do I think they are the best beginner snake? nope.

[Stefan-A]

Stefan, I to an extent, feel this way, but for me, it's not anger towards the snakes, rather, towards the people that mass breed them the way they do. I can't possibly take a stance such as "i hate cornsnakes"

I don't hate the snakes, I hate the situation.

Having said that, I am highly an advocate of NORMAL corns, which I beleive to be the most beautiful of all, breeders can have their albino candy cane striped motley caramel anery snowflake blizzard chocolate swirl flavored corns.... show me the okeetee's and the miami's! Don't get me wrong.. the genetics are fascinating and WELL worth studying and breeding out, but they are not for me. I am happy with my okeetee's and my anery

I would actually consider anery corns "normal" as well, because they are supposedly relatively common in the wild. But we seem to have pretty much the same taste in corns apart from that one. I think normals and miamis are the best looking ones.

[Cobra Kai]

And by writing all this, I am not putting garter snakes down in any way, I mean hell, I specialize heavily in them and love them more than any other snake times infinity. BUT... I simply do not feel that they make the best choice for a starter snake. They are a decent one, but seeing as they are so demanding food wise, and their young are so small and fragile (not to mention the size of their litters and the fact that they can surprise unknowing owners with a litter of babies before they have any knowledge and any time to prepare), and the fact that they are so energetic just makes them less than the optimal choice for the first snake. Do I think garter snakes are the best snakes to own? Yes. Do I think they are the best beginner snake? nope.

Thanks for breaking it down like a fraction and I'm buyin' what you're sellin'.

Ok...do you kids mind if I throw another one into the mix? What do you think about Lampropeltis triangulum triangulum? Are they good beginner snakes?

[tyflier]

Thanks for breaking it down like a fraction and I'm buyin' what you're sellin'.

Ok...do you kids mind if I throw another one into the mix? What do you think about Lampropeltis triangulum triangulum? Are they good beginner snakes?

Eastern Milks can be picky eaters, but if you get captive bred from a reputable breeder, you shouldn't have any problems. Being in the Kingsnake genus, they are just as easy to care for as corns, but lack some of the aggressive feeding responses of other kingsnakes in the genus, like Floridas(my personal faves...but not a beginner snake, IMO) and Calis(also not a great introduction...unless you enjoy being tasted occasionally).

And y'all need to back of the cornsnakes. It ain't their fault that too many people without a clue breed them. And it ain't their fault that the potential for morphs is simply staggering...second to none, in fact. With more single recessive morphs, it's no small wonder everyone and their brother wants to breed the next new combination...heck, I breed corns, and I don't breed normals...I breed morphs. I also HIGHLY recommend them as the best beginner snake, bar none. For reasons that have probably been mentioned a dozen times in this topic(I haven't actually read the whole thing...I just noticed how long it was getting and decided to check it out...), they are simply the easiest snakes to learn with...they forgive you for your mistakes, and they are relatively inexpensive...

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Eastern Milks can be picky eaters, but if you get captive bred from a reputable breeder, you shouldn't have any problems. Being in the Kingsnake genus, they are just as easy to care for as corns, but lack some of the aggressive feeding responses of other kingsnakes in the genus, like Floridas(my personal faves...but not a beginner snake, IMO) and Calis(also not a great introduction...unless you enjoy being tasted occasionally).

And y'all need to back of the cornsnakes. It ain't their fault that too many people without a clue breed them. And it ain't their fault that the potential for morphs is simply staggering...second to none, in fact. With more single recessive morphs, it's no small wonder everyone and their brother wants to breed the next new combination...heck, I breed corns, and I don't breed normals...I breed morphs. I also HIGHLY recommend them as the best beginner snake, bar none. For reasons that have probably been mentioned a dozen times in this topic(I haven't actually read the whole thing...I just noticed how long it was getting and decided to check it out...), they are simply the easiest snakes to learn with...they forgive you for your mistakes, and they are relatively inexpensive...

well said, Chris! I wholeheartedly agree! was not saying I don't like the morphs out there.... was just kinda stating my prefernece for normals

but lack some of the aggressive feeding responses of other kingsnakes in the genus

my female is a good example of this... but my male is worse than most cali kings! He attacks his dead pinky and re-kills it!

[Garter_Gertie]

(clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap... hands now hurt)

Stefan, I to an extent, feel this way, but for me, it's not anger towards the snakes, rather, towards the people that mass breed them the way they do. I can't possibly take a stance such as "i hate cornsnakes" because it's not the snake's fault they are so darned easy to breed and care for. I do understand where you are coming from and just how fristrating it is. I get pretty ticked walking past table after table of tiny deli cups stacked to the ceiling with baby corns, ball pythons, and BCI's. Even if they are the most common, I love cornsnakes for what they are.. a hardy, pretty snake that is easy to care for and generally does not bite the hand that feeds. Having said that, I am highly an advocate of NORMAL corns, which I beleive to be the most beautiful of all, breeders can have their albino candy cane striped motley caramel anery snowflake blizzard chocolate swirl flavored corns.... show me the okeetee's and the miami's! Don't get me wrong.. the genetics are fascinating and WELL worth studying and breeding out, but they are not for me. I am happy with my okeetee's and my anery

I do recognize that there are other snakes that are just as easy as corns... but since corns are readily available... they take the cake. There are a lot of rat snakes that are easy to keep, and lots of others... but they are just not as readily available. Cali kings are right there with corns, but the thing with them is... they often decide that your hand is dinner and I have pried many a king snake off my hand... and many people simply take that the wrong way... that the snake is mean. The fact is that kingsnakes often think with their tummies first

And by writing all this, I am not putting garter snakes down in any way, I mean hell, I specialize heavily in them and love them more than any other snake times infinity. BUT... I simply do not feel that they make the best choice for a starter snake. They are a decent one, but seeing as they are so demanding food wise, and their young are so small and fragile (not to mention the size of their litters and the fact that they can surprise unknowing owners with a litter of babies before they have any knowledge and any time to prepare), and the fact that they are so energetic just makes them less than the optimal choice for the first snake. Do I think garter snakes are the best snakes to own? Yes. Do I think they are the best beginner snake? nope.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I have a pair of t. triangulum.... and well technically by the books, these are kingsnakes. I have heard babies are hard to start... I acquired my pair this year... I caught them as hatchlings! They are doing great for me.. sucking down f/t pinkies... but they are quite shy, I don't ever seen them and they don't really care to see me either!