Collecting Gravid Females.

[brain]

If we give the babies a head start and release them into the wild, there is ALWAYS the concern of pathogens, seclusive diets, and (very importantly) the current impact of any introduction of newcomers to an existing population.

... and try to avoid commercial monsters like Petco! They are the epitome of apathy, when it comes to herp knowledge and maintenance. Steve

First, Steve I don’t think the weather is going to allow us to come to your lecture, it’s still snowing here. For sure in April

OK, taking no offence but just to add my two cents, concerning releasing snakes.

If the herp was a morph wouldn’t Mother Nature correct this? “It is the weakest link, good bye.”

So I collect a 0.1, she has her little critters, I let her go back to the area she was caught.

Now I have decreased the local population by what 10? Out of how many other gravid 0.1’s are in the area and how many other herpers are doing the same in this area (not a lot I’m sure).

As I have released her back into her world I just don’t see the harm?

Given these conditions while I have her;
1. her own outdoor habitat
2. provided aspen bedding
3. local hide and branches
4. water bowl, I am on a well
5. I provide her guppies, local slugs and WC salmon

My question in general is: “What pathogens do I expose her and/or the environment to?”

[Stefan-A]

If the herp was a morph wouldn’t Mother Nature correct this? “It is the weakest link, good bye.”

Not necessarily and that's not how it works. The mutation might well have been beneficial.

Now I have decreased the local population by what 10? Out of how many other gravid 0.1’s are in the area and how many other herpers are doing the same in this area (not a lot I’m sure).

As I have released her back into her world I just don’t see the harm?

Doesn't matter, those 10 get added to the overall loss to the population and it gets subtracted from the number of available prey animals (predators need those garters, too). And you've stressed out the female and relocated her and just simply decreased her chances of survival.

My question in general is: “What pathogens do I expose her and/or the environment to?”

Who knows. That's the general answer.

[brain]

TY for the inputs.

I believe if it is a morph i.e. albino, then it would not last in the wild.

And there is no information on “What pathogens do I expose her and/or the environment to?”

Who knows. That's the general answer. Humm, sound like a scare tactic to me. I’m not going to deplete the species, they are not on the endangered list in Washington.

I’ll collect and release and we can have our options?

[Stefan-A]

TY for the inputs.

I believe if it is a morph i.e. albino, then it would not last in the wild.

I'd say that's likely, in the case of the albino. Still, it'd be a meal for a predator.

Humm, sound like a scare tactic to me. I’m not going to deplete the species, they are not on the endangered list in Washington.

It's not, the point is just that it's a very real risk and frankly, I don't have a list of pathogens that can pose a threat and I obviously can't make any kind of statement regarding what pathogens you specifically could spread into the wild population. The point is, it's a very serious risk and I personally don't believe that it's worth it. Feel free to disagree.

None of the garters are really doing great either and it's going to get worse, especially considering what's happening to amphibians all over the world and habitat loss. Even if they're not on the endangered list, why act in a way that brings them closer to getting on that list?




Edit: Here's a link to another discussion we've had. http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/gene...isturbing.html

[brain]

Feel free to disagree.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/gene...isturbing.html

Yes I did read this but keep quite.

Again TY for the inputs and views.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

And there is no information on “What pathogens do I expose her and/or the environment to?”

I can kind of see your point... but... do you keep other snakes? if so, you automatically risk spreading anything your current snakes may be carrying and not showing to her just by contacting them, and then her or vice versa. So saying that you are never exposing her to anything bad would be impossible since you would need a 100% sterile environment where you never ever contact her personally to be successful in zero exposure. Bacteria, viruses, fungi, and parasite eggs are all invisible to the naked eye, it's as simple as you mess around with another animal in your house (or out of it, for that matter) that happens to be carrying something and you automatically risk possibly, passing. Whether she would actually catch it, whether she fights it off, whether she carries it without showing it and then when she is released it wipes out a small population, that is all left to chance and unseen circumstances. To wonder about what real harm you are doing is perfectly okay, but to deny that there is a *posibility* of you causing it would be rather silly. Never say never!

The other major point of capturing, keeping, and then releasing a snake that people often miss is the amount of stress and confusion it puts the snak through. Stress lowers her immune system, causing her to be more susceptible to picking up things that she might normall fight off. When you set her free, she is obviously confused and even if you release her exactly where you found her, she is going to spend a good bit of time crawling around aimlessly trying to figure out what the heck is going on and that is the time where she is very likely to be eaten and thus you are in fact, reducing her chance to survive by a great deal by degradation of her immune system and mental health.

I am not saying I am for or against occasional capture and release, I am merely stating facts and offering some speculation and counterpoints to what you have brought up. Whereas Stefan probably meant everything Ihad said, he usually does not go into detail

I believe if it is a morph i.e. albino, then it would not last in the wild.

This is true in many cases but certainly not all. Every color morph animal you see, originated from an animal that 99% of the time, was collected from the wild and was actually showing that trait and not just carrying it. Some color morphs, such as anery, melanistic, hypomelanistic, and even occasionally erythristic are actually beneficial at times and you can even find established populations of these individuals. I personally own an albino animal that was collected in the wild, the albino dekay's of course, and while that was a baby my other two wild caught morph animals were not. Scott felzer owns a BUNCH of astounding morph animals from the wild, many of which were adults at the time found. My hypo eastern, which is close in coloring to a t positive albino, was already an adult and gravid when I caught her. She stuck out SO bad in the grass and yet, she made it. I saw her from almost 40 feet away crawling through tall grass. My wild caught flame has a fluorescent red stripe that is about as inconspicuous as a traffic cone... she was a juvenile and she made it as well. Morphs do make it in the wild, not always, but if they didn't, we would never see them in the hobby!