cross breeding?

[Brewster320]

Actually, I was just pointing out that it's not the first time the issue has been discussed.

I know. I was just putting my imput on the infomation in that thread because it seems that the final conculsion of that was that the cross would be impossible.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Many of the different generas between other North American Colubrids (Pantherophis, Lampropeltis, and Pituophis). Some of these have even been bred with some of the Asian Rat Snakes in the genus Elaphe which many would actually consider impossible.

I would love a link to any research or proof of North American / Asian crosses.
It appears that the cladistic tree is being rewritten here in NA; it almost sounds like you could call the whole NA group "North American Rat Snakes", although that wouldn't appear applicable to their behaviors, diets, etc. Think convergent evolution when comparing New and Old World snakes!

Last I read in the journals, the one snake that ties kings, milks, gophers, corns, and rats together is the Long-nosed Snake, which, based on cytochrome B analysis, shows it to be the colubrid most closely related to what was the common ancestor of them all!

Still, i have not heard of an NA/Asian hybrid and am curious...

[Brewster320]

I would love a link to any research or proof of North American / Asian crosses.
It appears that the cladistic tree is being rewritten here in NA; it almost sounds like you could call the whole NA group "North American Rat Snakes", although that wouldn't appear applicable to their behaviors, diets, etc. Think convergent evolution when comparing New and Old World snakes!

Last I read in the journals, the one snake that ties kings, milks, gophers, corns, and rats together is the Long-nosed Snake, which, based on cytochrome B analysis, shows it to be the colubrid most closely related to what was the common ancestor of them all!

Still, i have not heard of an NA/Asian hybrid and am curious...

I have infact seen pictures of a beauty snake x greenish rat and a japanse rat x corn snake. I think I have them saved some where, I'd have to find them. Japanese Rats x Corns seen the most common OW x NW hybrids, I've seen several pictures of these and people who own them, I've even seen the offspring of one of these snake that was bred back to a corn so it was 1/4 japanese and 3/4 corn. So they are atleast fertile if being bred back to a corn. I'll look for the pictures though.

[Brewster320]

The problem with breeding snakes from the same genus is the fact that a lot of them look similar to begin with. If you crossed them the babies could be mistaken for either species. Unless your crossing animals that don't look anything a like (color, pattern, shape, or size wise) go for it, I'm all for hybrids.

[Stefan-A]

In my personal opinion, creating hybrids is the most pointless thing anyone could do with their snakes.

[gregmonsta]

In my personal opinion, creating hybrids is the most pointless thing anyone could do with their snakes.

Agreed, don't want to end up polluting the CB bloodlines. There's just no need with garters. There are already so many species/subspecies/colour forms to choose from. The last thing I want to see is a morph overload in 'fashion' garters (equivalent to the madness in royal/corn morphs which has become extremely boring and simply ridiculous as far as money is concearned).

[jamromhem]

yeah I was just noticing that there were already garters with the look that I wan tin them :P

So much for making my own cool hybrid :P nature stole my idea

[jamromhem]

yeah I see the point. No real purpose with garters.

(I wonder if you can cross an egg snake with a garter?) just kidding. though a baby garter/eggsnake able to eat a fuzzy at birth would be interesting :P

I see the point of not hybridizing them though and saw the look that I was wanting in another thamnophis. might want to hold off on it though :P it might become my favorite :P.. don't want my checkered (who spends all of her time playing hide and seek under her substrate so I don't get to enjoy her without harassing her) to feel less loved.

[gregmonsta]

(I wonder if you can cross an egg snake with a garter?) just kidding. though a baby garter/eggsnake able to eat a fuzzy at birth would be interesting :P

There actually was a report of a south American population of garters that have made the move towards raiding the eggs from birds nest in one of my issues of 'The Garter Snake' (EGSA newsletter). Thamnophis dasypeltissima is restricted to a network of islands and was first reported in 2007 on the Tauranga Atol and there have only been few biological observations of this species so far.

[Mike Spencer]

Although not 'hybrids' there are a lot of subspecies that will have an intergrade zone where two subspecies will successfully breed. In California, there is the Thamnophis atratus atratus X zaxanthus X hydrophilus intergrades and the Thamnophis elegans elegans X vagrans intergrades, both of which I find every year. Also, in Washington state, there is the Thamnophis sirtalis concinnus X pickeringi intergrades. I know there are others but I would have to check my notes. I'll get back on them.