cross breeding?

[Brewster320]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/gene...siblities.html

Genera doesn't matter my bets are it could happen considering how cloesely related the two genera are. Many of the different generas between other North American Colubrids (Pantherophis, Lampropeltis, and Pituophis). Some of these have even been bred with some of the Asian Rat Snakes in the genus Elaphe which many would actually consider impossible. It has also been proven that different genus of pythons and boas can interbreed with each other (Not boas X pythons of course but with different genus of there own families). The ball python has even been crossed with the woma python which is amazing considering they are in different genus, one lives in Africa, othe other in Aussie, and the Woma doesn't even have heat pits which is a huge differnce! So to say a water x garter is impossible can't be proven until its tried.

As for garter hybrids. To be truthfully honest, if you don't include colors all garter look basicly the same body shape, size, structure, and pattern wise. there may be some small differences but once you cross two garters that difference is gone. then once you add morphs into the mix It'd be close to impossible to identify the hybrids. With any other group of snakes I'd give you the go ahead because I love hybrids but with garters, not a great idea with other garters atleast.

[Stefan-A]

Genera doesn't matter my bets are it could happen considering how cloesely related the two genera are. Many of the different generas between other North American Colubrids (Pantherophis, Lampropeltis, and Pituophis). Some of these have even been bred with some of the Asian Rat Snakes in the genus Elaphe which many would actually consider impossible. It has also been proven that different genus of pythons and boas can interbreed with each other (Not boas X pythons of course but with different genus of there own families). The ball python has even been crossed with the woma python which is amazing considering they are in different genus, one lives in Africa, othe other in Aussie, and the Woma doesn't even have heat pits which is a huge differnce! So to say a water x garter is impossible can't be proven until its tried.

Actually, I was just pointing out that it's not the first time the issue has been discussed.

[Brewster320]

Actually, I was just pointing out that it's not the first time the issue has been discussed.

I know. I was just putting my imput on the infomation in that thread because it seems that the final conculsion of that was that the cross would be impossible.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Many of the different generas between other North American Colubrids (Pantherophis, Lampropeltis, and Pituophis). Some of these have even been bred with some of the Asian Rat Snakes in the genus Elaphe which many would actually consider impossible.

I would love a link to any research or proof of North American / Asian crosses.
It appears that the cladistic tree is being rewritten here in NA; it almost sounds like you could call the whole NA group "North American Rat Snakes", although that wouldn't appear applicable to their behaviors, diets, etc. Think convergent evolution when comparing New and Old World snakes!

Last I read in the journals, the one snake that ties kings, milks, gophers, corns, and rats together is the Long-nosed Snake, which, based on cytochrome B analysis, shows it to be the colubrid most closely related to what was the common ancestor of them all!

Still, i have not heard of an NA/Asian hybrid and am curious...

[Brewster320]

I would love a link to any research or proof of North American / Asian crosses.
It appears that the cladistic tree is being rewritten here in NA; it almost sounds like you could call the whole NA group "North American Rat Snakes", although that wouldn't appear applicable to their behaviors, diets, etc. Think convergent evolution when comparing New and Old World snakes!

Last I read in the journals, the one snake that ties kings, milks, gophers, corns, and rats together is the Long-nosed Snake, which, based on cytochrome B analysis, shows it to be the colubrid most closely related to what was the common ancestor of them all!

Still, i have not heard of an NA/Asian hybrid and am curious...

I have infact seen pictures of a beauty snake x greenish rat and a japanse rat x corn snake. I think I have them saved some where, I'd have to find them. Japanese Rats x Corns seen the most common OW x NW hybrids, I've seen several pictures of these and people who own them, I've even seen the offspring of one of these snake that was bred back to a corn so it was 1/4 japanese and 3/4 corn. So they are atleast fertile if being bred back to a corn. I'll look for the pictures though.