Anyone ever cross tetrataenia with blotched ssp. (infernalis, concinnus, parietalis)

[Bay_area]

The red legged frog is not the only thing they eat. Most garters are too small to eat red legged frogs anyhow. Their diet consist of alot more than just those frogs, such as nightcrawlers, treefrogs, various types of salamanders & like the California Redsided garters they are able to eat the newts without being affected by the skin that is poisonous to other animals.

California Red legged frogs. These are not that much smaller than a bullfrog. Find these crossing the road in the spring




newts are all over the place in the spring. I am sure they are a big part of their diet

[zooplan]

@ bay area
nice to read that there are more SFGarters left than it seemed a few years ago.
Still its my point of view, that they are over protected a indiviluals and not enough supported as speci.
The reimport of those group to the zoo of SF took only a half year, maybe I should start trying an export to get one in a few years.

[Thamnophis]

I agree that they will eat more than only red frogs.
But it seems to be an important part of their diet.
Makes sense. In Spring when they mate and the females get pregnant there are probably a lot of tadpoles. They change into small frogs and are for months not to big to get eaten.
And when the circumstances for the frogs are bad, this is also the case for newts etc.
I have read somewhere that where the water was made suitable for the frogs again the tetrataenia's returned also.

[drache]

that's the thing
it's not so much the loss of habitat, as the degradation
both in the SF bay area as well as around other urban areas
once the environment - especially the water - gets cleaned up and there are more stringent disposal laws, the animals often return and are able to proliferate again

[Bay_area]

that's the thing
it's not so much the loss of habitat, as the degradation
both in the SF bay area as well as around other urban areas
once the environment - especially the water - gets cleaned up and there are more stringent disposal laws, the animals often return and are able to proliferate again

I have to disagree, The loss of habitat is the major problem. I do not know how things work in your Country, but in California it is sad. Unless the land has been set aside by the park systems there is no guarantee that the land will not be developed. If a developer wants to build on property they get an enviromental report. If the report says there are endangered spiecies on the land, you would think that would be the end of it. NOT! The devopers have lobbiest that go to the Politicians & get them to "bend the rules" to build if they relocate animals or set aside a portion of the property for wilderness. In a nut shell, that is what happens. It is a little more complex than that, but it does come down to who has the most money to donate to political campaigns. It is hard to get anyone to listen to anyone that fights for animals because the bad image that certain enviromental wackos have painted for those that want to help. Sort of like how the abortion clinic bombers gave a bad picture of what a Christian is.

Please do not take this wrong, I am glad that I live in USA, it just isn't a perfect system

[G-natrix]

I've been around the politics of tetrataenia a fair bit and I have to agree with Phillip Blais on the status of the snake. I don't know how HE knows what he knows, but he gets it just about right. Read it here:

The San Francisco Garter Snake in Canada - gartersnake.info

[Bay_area]

I've been around the politics of tetrataenia a fair bit and I have to agree with Phillip Blais on the status of the snake. I don't know how HE knows what he knows, but he gets it just about right. Read it here:

The San Francisco Garter Snake in Canada - gartersnake.info

Yes, the article is pretty accurate. Crystal Springs Resevoir is a well guarded place. The only way to go in there is with a guided hike with Rangers @ front & the rear making sure no one bothers any of the wildlife. I do not think there is a large problem with poachers as the article said. I do know some people that, lets say, not completely legal when it comes to what they have in their collection. I do not know anyone that is willing to poach SF Garters!
One problem that was not addressed in the article, was the populations on private property. People that own the property that have existing populations do not want the government agencies to know about them. The property owners are afraid that if it becomes public information there will be restrictions put on what they can do with their own property. If a farmer has a pond the contains red legged frogs & SF Garters and he wants to plant pumpkins, he might be forbidin to do so. Believe me, try & get permission to look, I have been told this before.

[G-natrix]

Of course the sad thing is that pumpkins are a pretty mild insult to the landscape out there -- in fact, they probably keep the pumpkin-driven economy of Half Moon Bay afloat & therefore may help to keep farmers going & thus stave off development (which WOULD be bad for the frog & the snake). That part of the coast is already pretty pumpkin-y & yet it would be hard to imagine the red-legged frogs existing at a higher density than they already are out there. As it stands they're in virtually every pond or ditch & the few bigger reservoirs that have bullfrogs share them with red-legged frogs (some kind of uneasy peace I assume). The Ano Nuevo pond supports a good population of T.s. tetrataenia & is one of the few spots on that stretch of coast that has a healthy population of bullfrogs, so I don't really see the threat there. Between State Parks and Peninsula Land Trust and the Coast Dairy/Cloverdale preserve and Mid-Peninsula Open Space District the coast is pretty tightly sewn up preservation-wise. Finally, I would think the best way to stave off poachers would be for the government to embark on a massive captive breeding program and flood the market with tets -- in fact, they should give them away for free. That would suck for people who like tets because they're rare, but that's THEIR problem. It would be great for all of us who like tets because they're pretty.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I would volunteer for the massive captive breeding prgram for the government....

[zooplan]

When ´tetrataenia breeding is going on like the last few yaers, we can float the US market with snakes from Europe, but without fresh blood
the population may decline again as well.
Prices went down from more than 500€ in the late 1990´th to less than 130€ now and are still decreasing.