A note concerning pre-packaged frozen fish

[EasternGirl]

Right...but to respond to both Richard and Kimberly...I always check and make sure the seafood I buy does not have color added and has not been previously frozen. Both very good points. At my store, at the seafood counter, they have little signs next to the fish...the signs tell you if it has color added or if it has been previously frozen...it also says it on the label they put on the fish when you buy it. I also ask before selecting any. If the seafood store or the seafood counter where you buy your seafood does not have signs telling you these things...ask before purchasing.

[EasternGirl]

Well that's good to know...it gives me more options for buying salmon because a lot of the salmon has coloring added to it to give it a pink/red color.

[mike k]

If only I'd read this thread 8 months ago. I've kept a lot of species of snakes the last 20 yrs. The first pet snake my mom let me have was garter snake in the 4th grade. I didn't have much luck with that wild caught, pet store bought red sided, and I haven't had a garter since then.

Until last summer, when I took on the challenge. We raise 2 box turtles and a tree frog, along with 14 other colubrids, and I added three cb baby red sided garters. The babies were a lot smaller than I expected. I thought rosies would be too big, so guess what?? - I pulled some frozen tilapia from Walmart out of the back of the freezer and shaved off a few slices. I was estatic when they chowed the strips down. Woohoo, I've got them started, I thought.

The next morning...2 were dead and one was on the way out, at one point doing slow death twirls. As a first time garter snake owner, I thought it could have been anything - housing, temperature, travel stress, mysterious chemical in the house, what it ate, and any other possibility.

I searched the internet and by lunch I'd dug deep enough to realize it was the tilapia. There were so many husbandry pages out there that never mentioned this danger. I couldn't believe it. A simple, basic thing that should be easy to prevent. Sites all said to feed strips of fish. Now that I've done a lot more research, it seems the best thing to tell a newbie is to not feed any fish unless you've seen it swimming before it got frozen.

Mid afternoon a great thing happened. The red sided looked normal. No more slow twirling, it recognized my finger a few inches away and reacted. He drank. I might have got on my knees and looked up to the sky. A few days later he ate few live rosies out of his peanut butter jar lid/water dish. I have a theory why he survived the poisoning.

Today, 8 months later, he ate his first live pinky! Scented with frozen/thawed rosies. I've been paranoid feeding him rosies exclusively, he's not too interested in worms.

All prospective garter owners need to be aware of this issue with frozen fish.

[infernalis]

Since I have last posted in this thread, I have dug deeper and asked questions, A veterinarian whom I spoke with was highly interested in this as renal failure could very easily be attributed to the consumption of phosphates.

I say "Could" because until now, no one ever thought much about it.

When Chomper's uric acid levels soared off the charts, the vet asked me what I was feeding him, I said "Inverts" mostly frozen raw shrimp. She asked me to look at the package it came in, and sure enough there it was.. Sodium Tripolyphosphate.

Then I looked at my packaged fish, there it is again, so I went to the market and just started reading bag after bag of frozen seafoods, they all have it.

The trout that I started buying is farm raised locally, and the market I buy it at has a sign posted that clearly states "Farm fresh, certified chemical / preservative free organic rainbow trout"

Sudden snake deaths ceased once I began feeding the trout fillet.

[guidofatherof5]

Good update Wayne. Thanks.

[EasternGirl]

So now I'm confused...Stefan said that the coloring added to fish is safe and Richard is saying it isn't. I buy my fish from the seafood counter at my supermarket. I always make sure it is fresh, and not previously frozen. But my snakes really love salmon and it is hard to find salmon that does not have coloring added to it. We don't really have any shops around here that sell organic fish. So...should I not buy the salmon with the coloring added to it then? I should just buy tilapia or something like that?

[infernalis]

So now I'm confused...Stefan said that the coloring added to fish is safe and Richard is saying it isn't. I buy my fish from the seafood counter at my supermarket. I always make sure it is fresh, and not previously frozen. But my snakes really love salmon and it is hard to find salmon that does not have coloring added to it. We don't really have any shops around here that sell organic fish. So...should I not buy the salmon with the coloring added to it then? I should just buy tilapia or something like that?

You misunderstood.

The colouring is not what is dangerous, not that I know of. It's the phosphate.

If you can get Phosphate free fish, then you should be OK.

[Stefan-A]

The colouring is not what is dangerous, not that I know of. It's the phosphate.

If you can get Phosphate free fish, then you should be OK.

I think the dangerous part would be the sodium, not the phosphate. Or maybe not.

[ConcinusMan]

So now I'm confused...Stefan said that the coloring added to fish is safe and Richard is saying it isn't.

I didn't say it wasn't safe. I just didn't know at all so when I saw that it was labeled "color added" I simply avoided it out of precaution.

Well that sucks about the darn chemicals in your fish Wayne. Still, I don't think that's any reason to condemn any one particular type of fish. Luckily I can buy fresh or frozen tilapia, salmon, steelhead, etc and nothing has beed added (except the steelhead has harmless coloring). I've never seen any sodium phosphates on any labels and certainly haven't had any deaths from preservatives that I know of. I just have to watch out for certain species due to their tendency to contain mercury and PCB's. For that reason, tilapia is the "cleanest". Just have to be certain no phosphates or sodium has been added. I'll say it again, most fish does have a significant amount of sodium naturally. I don't think that's what's causing a problem. Added sodium and certainly phosphates or any preservative is highly suspect. probably wouldn't hurt a mammal one bit, but to a bird or reptile, could be deadly as cyanide and cause rapid renal failure. Reptile / bird kidneys just don't work the same way as ours. They expel solid concentrated urates, not liquid urine. They can't handle excessive sodium and other chemicals that our kidneys expel easily and without harm. Giving them that stuff would be a similar outcome to a human drinking a half gallon of antifreeze. Rapid renal failure.

[EasternGirl]

But the fresh fish...the kind that has not been previously frozen should not contain sodium phosphate right?