shoot...

[gregmonsta]

Just sayin..


Greg

I know mate I've been enjoying this thread because it's so full of differing opinions. I love to throw tangents in every now and again. Anyway, when it comes down to it I don't ever plan to breed anything other than same subspecies couples (which I hope to mix up with unrelated breeders as and when possible).
But .... essentially I think those flaming babies are cute as Hell and the colour is so striking. I'd love to have one and do believe that there should be no problem keeping it as a stand alone 'look at the flame on this' pet.

[drache]

have a great time

[mycolorfulheart]

I think Steven cut to the heart of the issue when he said that in reality, none of us know each other, and it all comes down to trust. Someone else brought up the idea of a sanctuary taking them in--I know it's a long shot, but it'd be a nice solution to the problem.

But I do believe that keeping animals as pets at all is a complete risk to their gene pool. In essence, we enjoy keeping them so we take the risk of one getting loose and breeding. Also the risk of people breeding hybrids on purpose. It seems very hypocritical to me to hear that those risks are okay, but the risk of trusting other members to not breed isn't okay. If Tina wanted she could research all the former posts of the people offering to take her snakes--see how many snakes we have, whether we already breed, if we take good care of our snakes, etc. It is much easier to trust a dozen members from thamnophis.com than the hoards of people who have access to a pet store garter at any time. If we really want the gene pool to stay pure, we should be lobbying to make garters illegal as pets.

[gregmonsta]

If we really want the gene pool to stay pure, we should be lobbying to make garters illegal as pets.

ROFL .... NO CHANCE!!! .... I wan't to keep them forever!!!! Pets are pets and wild is wild

[Stefan-A]

In essence, we enjoy keeping them so we take the risk of one getting loose and breeding.

Nothing here to breed with and it wouldn't survive the winter anyway.

[Lumpy]

Yeah, but here in Garter country, wild often become pets. That's how I got mine.

As a matter of fact, I'm willing to bet that many folks in the states would scratch their heads at seeing a Garter for sale in the pet store. I can hear it now.."Why would I buy a snake I can go catch in my back yard?" Kinda like selling sand to the middle east!

Lump

[jeanette]

well this thread turned out to be controversial lol.
ok lets take it down to the bare essentials...............
who breeds? do they breed for a hobby or will it just be a one off?
who doesnt breed? do they just like garters for the joy of keeping them?
what it comes down to is that more often than not it tends to be a breeders issue on keeping the lines pure and euthanising the mixedbloods.
however the ones that just tend to keep garters for the pure joy of the hobby are more tolerant of the unfortunates. It isnt always a fact in either case but it tends to be the norm.
What has happened, was a mistake and we have already had some offers to rehome some of the intergrades. those offers, im sure are greatly valued. It really is a shame that there is no general sterilising of snakes like there is with dogs and cats. otherwise this discussion wouldnt really be happening.
To freeze or not to freeze?
Im saying give them a chance.........maybe do some research on wether or not these intergrades HAVE actually occured in nature, look into giving them to a sanctuary or an educational facility. Take the plunge with people that are part of the garter community and have no desire to breed.
I really couldnt kill them off, i have too much of a heart. i keep thinking how fantastic they would look in a single sex viv with maybe 4 of them slithering around.
They are beautiful.

[Stefan-A]

This is a really ugly post from me, Jeanette, hope you don't take it personally, because that's not my intention. I'm just making my opinion known, nothing more. I had to chop your text, but it was the only way to comment on so many points.

Im saying give them a chance.........

Don't give them a chance. They can do far more damage alive than dead.

maybe do some research on wether or not these intergrades HAVE actually occured in nature,

I don't think it matters whether or not intergrades occur in the wild. Intergrades will only interfere with people's hobby and many people do put considerable amounts of money and effort into their hobby and their breeding programs. A single hybrid is enough to ruin it for the person and for those that have bought snakes from him.

look into giving them to a sanctuary or an educational facility.

Do not give them to a sanctuary or educational facility, you might as well give them to any random person and tell them to breed the hell out of them. They can't be trusted with hybrids.

Take the plunge with people that are part of the garter community and have no desire to breed.

Accidents happen and minds change. Suppose somebody loses interest in garters or can't keep them for some other reason. What then? You're going to be hard pressed to find somebody who'll accept the hybrids and still care about keeping them from breeding. You may very well end up in a situation, where only less-than-serious individuals will be willing to take them off your hands.

I really couldnt kill them off, i have too much of a heart.

In this case, heart is not enough.

i keep thinking how fantastic they would look in a single sex viv with maybe 4 of them slithering around.
They are beautiful.

Depends on how you look at it. They can be beautiful, but also ugly because of what they represent. And suppose they were incorrectly sexed? That happens all the time.

[drache]

Intergrades will only interfere with people's hobby and many people do put considerable amounts of money and effort into their hobby and their breeding programs. A single hybrid is enough to ruin it for the person and for those that have bought snakes from him.

They can be beautiful, but also ugly because of what they represent.

Stefan
you're making this sound like something from the dark side
I understand that there is a desire on the part of some reptile owners to have the same sort of status, the owner of a fine thoroughbred anything has
since we're at the moment addressing that, rather than conservation issues, perhaps the simplest solution would be, to have pedigree papers and certifying bodies, just like equestrian organizations and kennel clubs, for those who need them, and the average joe can keep all the mutts they want

[gregmonsta]

Stefan
you're making this sound like something from the dark side
I understand that there is a desire on the part of some reptile owners to have the same sort of status, the owner of a fine thoroughbred anything has
since we're at the moment addressing that, rather than conservation issues, perhaps the simplest solution would be, to have pedigree papers and certifying bodies, just like equestrian organizations and kennel clubs, for those who need them, and the average joe can keep all the mutts they want

Can we have annual meets and teach them to do tricks ?