Garter snake food - fish questions.

[Lee]

Hi,
I've been busy and haven't posted much, working on setting up a large aquarium for native fish. Anyway, I have a garter I caught 2 years ago, and I've been feeding goldfish/mice, I was wondering if there are any fish that are better for them than goldfish? I like goldfish because I can get a good sized one for a quarter, but I don't want to spend 5 dollars a meal you know.. Suggestions are welcomed.

[suzoo]

Hi Lee,
I swear there was a thread on here about fish that have "Thiaminase" that are bad for our garters, but I can't find it. So let me hope the experts on this site can refer you to it. I do know that goldfish were on that list, so you shouldn't feed them to your snakes. Also I know several people with garters that feed them mice only and their snakes are great. I feed nightcrawlers from Walmart, and you can feed them rosyred minnows that are also available at most Walmarts. I get bullhead minnows from a bait shop, but I don't know if they carry Thiaminase or not. I've been trying to find out. I plan on switching my snakes to mice myself.
Hope I helped a little,
Suzoo

[Cazador]

Hi Lee,
The thread Suzoo was talking about is here (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/welc...o-you-all.html). Look down near the bottom. I don't know where you are in the U.S., but if you're on a coast, salmon are a good source. Otherwise, you might consider trout, bass, bluegill, crappie, or perch. You can buy a whole fish or a fillet in the supermarket and cut off small chunks after it's frozen. Then just thaw and serve. Leave the bones within, unless they have particularily sharp edges. It's also a good idea to dip them into vitamin powder (Calcium & Vitamin D) once in a while.

[Lee]

Thanks both, actually I am going to be setting up a 75g+ tank for bluegill/sunfish. So I really don't want to feed them to him, unless I have a ton of babies that end up in the tank from hybridization. I've got like 45 rosy reds right now, but they are so tiny...

BTW, I prefer to feed live fish, I don't want just dead mice, or fish fillet. He is a wild caught snake and really enjoys looking for his prey and catching/eating it.

[zirliz]

My are CB that I'm aware of but they love live fish one had to see a goldfish to prompt eating it's very interesting watching how they kill the fish P.S i love fish but all my pets gotta eat, how often do you guys feed your Garters?

[duh duh duh]

Garter Snake Care - gartersnake.info

This is the best site I have seen for care and feeding of garters. You'll want to read it because Goldfish are not recommended.

If your snake enjoys hunting a bit for his food, have you tried earthworms? You can get those pretty cheap at bait stores and if you powder them they aren't too bad for your snake. It seems as though pinkies are the best for him.

What about putting the pinkies underneath a log or vary where in the tank you put the food so he has to go looking for it?

[zirliz]

Goes against any snake keeping book I've ever read I'm confused now, I read freezing and thawing destroys the thamine hormone that's why I fed live fish.
My Garters are very fast growers so I disagree with mice speeding up growth rate and fish are easier to handle for me I do think my Red-sided would eat 'em as she's very interested in what I feed my Boa.
Where can you get these vit. supplements they talk about?

[suzoo]

Thank you Duh duh duh! That is a GREAT site!!!

[Cazador]

Hi Michelle,

I just wanted to very clearly dispell the notion that freezing destroys the thiaminase enzyme. It definitely does not. Heating above 180F (82C) for at least 5 minutes destroys this enzyme.

In biology, if you want to preserve a sample, you freeze it. If you want to destroy a sample, you heat it. We often preserve samples at -80C for as much as two years if we can't do the analysis right away. Even after this amount of time, the samples are still in perfect shape for whatever analysis we want to perform (cellular, enzymatic, hormonal...). Freezing is obviously effective at killing living organisms, which is why it's so useful to kill many parasites and pathogens. Yet many bacteria and spores still aren't killed by freezing.

Rick

[Lee]

Hi, thanks for the replies. I've read all about this problem with goldfish, and everything I've read says it can be ok to feed goldfish as long as mice are suplimented sometimes. Also, for the suggestion of putting it under a log... My tank is extremely basic, it has a pot for a hide, and a water bowl. With some substrate. Along with a rock for shedding.. Its only a 20-30 gallon tank. If I could find live pinkies it would be great, but I don't think petco/petsmart sells them. Also, I really hate the idea of worms, I tried it when I first got him and a few times, and he ignores them completely.