Califor. King Snake

[tyflier]

Well..I was going to read your entire post, but then I got to this:

...Cali Kings can't even be kept the same way as your average Pantherophis, how do you figure that 70% of all snakes under Colubridae could?...

And quit because you are absolutely, positively, without a doubt, 100% WRONG. L.g. californae can be kept under the EXACT SAME CONDITIONS as a MAJORITY of the Pantherophis genera of snakes without any issues.

How else do you explain the FACT that you can find Cali kings in the same area as several species of ratsnake, including, but not limited to, obsoleta, spiloides, and emoryi? How esle do you explain the FACT that California king care is precisely the same as Florida king care and floridana are found in the exact same locations as guttata? How else do you explain the FACT that with MINOR variations in temperature(and we're talking 3-5*F here...not 10 or 15...) you can keep ALL snakes in the Lampropeltis genus, and they are mostly found within FEET of many species in the Pantherophis family?

I won't even bother reading the rest of your replies if this is any indication of your how well you know these animals and their captive care requirements.

If nothing else...please realize that a difference of 3-5*F is something that all 50 of my Lampropeltis, Pantherophis, Lichanura, Pituophis, and Thamnophis are seperated by, and they all thrive and reproduce...without any issues. And I have done it this way for 20 years and change without a single issue...

Nitpick the "misuse" of taxonomic terminology all you want...the above are all facts that you simply cannot argue with, my friend...

By the way...How many North American colubrids do you have in Finland? How much native habitat and observation of these animals have you actually done that gives you such knowledge of what they require to be kept successfully in captivity?

A better question would be...whose care sheets are you reading that have thrown your captive care requirements for these animals SO far off base that you actually and honestly believe that a Cali King and a Texas Ratsnake can't be kept under the exact same conditions?

To the original poster...I'm sorry this topic got dragged so far away from your original question. BACK to that question...care for a Cali king is extremely easy. Follow any caresheet worth it's salt for a cornsnake, kingsnake, gophersnake, bullsnake, milksnake, ratsnake, or rosy boa, and you'll be just fine. Don't worry about the rest of this topic. If you have any specific questions...shoot me line via PM and I'll be happy to help you out...I'm done with this topic...

[Stefan-A]

Well..I was going to read your entire post, but then I got to this:

And quit because you are absolutely, positively, without a doubt, 100% WRONG. L.g. californae can be kept under the EXACT SAME CONDITIONS as a MAJORITY of the Pantherophis genera of snakes without any issues.

I think you're just being remarkably myopic.

How else do you explain the FACT that you can find Cali kings in the same area as several species of ratsnake, including, but not limited to, obsoleta, spiloides, and emoryi? How esle do you explain the FACT that California king care is precisely the same as Florida king care and floridana are found in the exact same locations as guttata? How else do you explain the FACT that with MINOR variations in temperature(and we're talking 3-5*F here...not 10 or 15...) you can keep ALL snakes in the Lampropeltis genus, and they are mostly found within FEET of many species in the Pantherophis family?

Why do you think they are found in the same area? Do you think there might be connection between that reason and maybe a reason why somebody might assert that you can't keep cali kings the same way that you can keep corns or other rat snakes?

If nothing else...please realize that a difference of 3-5*F is something that all 50 of my Lampropeltis, Pantherophis, Lichanura, Pituophis, and Thamnophis are seperated by, and they all thrive and reproduce...without any issues. And I have done it this way for 20 years and change without a single issue...

Oh, so now we've narrowed down the term "care" as well, first to "conditions" and then to "temperature" (and we've added a boid as well). So let's see if I've got this straight: "Standard" means applicable to an arbitrary percentage and according to rules that can be arbitrarily be ignored, "colubrid" means the three North American species of colubrid that are sold most often and "care" means temperature.

[tyflier]

I think you're just being remarkably myopic.

Why do you think they are found in the same area? Do you think there might be connection between that reason and maybe a reason why somebody might assert that you can't keep cali kings the same way that you can keep corns or other rat snakes?

Oh, so now we've narrowed down the term "care" as well, first to "conditions" and then to "temperature" (and we've added a boid as well). So let's see if I've got this straight: "Standard" means applicable to an arbitrary percentage and according to rules that can be arbitrarily be ignored, "colubrid" means the three North American species of colubrid that are sold most often and "care" means temperature.

And I think your being incredibly difficult.

The bottom line is you can sit there and micromanage hundreds of tiny little enclosures all day every day if that is your desire. But that is NOT what is required to properly care for these animals in captivity.

Keep it simple. Really...this is not rocket science, it's a pet hobby. It's people like you with an intolerable pentient for making the easiest things about the hobby seem incredibly difficult that keep so many new keepers and would-be lovers of snakes at bay and out of the hobby. Get over yourself. You aren't saving the world, you aren't solving any major crises, and you certainly aren't doing anything that the average 12 year old kid couldn't do with a little bit of information and knowledge. It simply is not as difficult as you would like to think.

As well...the North American colubrids are the ones most commonly kept as pets in this hobby not only in North America, but pretty much around the world.

Adamanteus-

I disagree. The term "standard colubrid care" is a term widely used to describe the captivce care of the largest grouping of colubrids available in the pet trade. I've seen it, heard it, and used myself hundreds of times. Unless this is the only forum you frequent...you've seen it too.

As regards "care"...why would it reflect a section of a group of animals that are not available in the pet trade? Why would the term "care" bring to mind ANYTHING other than a group that were readily available as pets?

I'm sorry, but I simply don't see the benefit of insulting someone who is trying to help, nor do I see the point in trying to turn an easy hobby into something only a special few can do.

You two are the moderators of a world wide forum, yea? Than you should be going out of your way to bring people IN to the hobby, not push them away. Telling people they aren't ready to rescue an animal that could be introuble just because they asked a question is HORRIBLY arrogant. Telling people that caring for a kingsnake is not even close to caring for a cornsnake, and turning an EASY hobby into a science that only a few elite people can participate in is HORRIBLY arrogant. It is THAT arrogance in THIS hobby that keep so many people away from it, and frankly, I think you both are doing HUGE disservice TO this hobby THROUGH your arrogance.

C'est la vie...it's your forum, do what you will. I would MUCH rather spend my time and energy with a group of people that care more about the fun and learning and teaching and sharing that this hobby is supposed to be about than an arrogant bunch of wannabe scientists that seem bent opn proving they are somehow better than everyone else simply because they know a few big words.

guidofatherof5-
I wish you the best. I fully support you in getting this animal and actually trying to gain some knowledge and make a difference. Too many people are willing to turn a blind eye or turn this hobby into a science to see that what you are doing would be the right thing. Go for it. I go by "KingofColubrids" and "tyflier" in MANY forums that are not nearly as arrogant as this one is. Look me up if you need a hand...

Later y'all. I need to go vomit from the stench of arrogance and false knowledge now...